Use this section to talk about anything relating to your PC.. networking, hardware, software, etc Message Lifetime: 180 days Each Forum consists of a message database with attached files. There are eight basic levels of user access: Zero, Read, Download, Write, Upload, Co-Op, Forum-Op, and Sysop. "Read" access means that you can read messages only; "Download" access means you can also download files; "Write" access allows you to write (or post) messages; "Upload" access means that you can also upload attachments, but that the Forum-Op must approve them for download; "Co-Op" uploads are "pre-approved". You have "Sysop" access to this Forum. Your Forum-Op is "Sysop". Please note: your account is charged 60 credits for each minute you spend in this Forum. In addition, you are given 300 credits each time you write a message, given 300 credits for each file uploaded, and not charged for each file downloaded. If a file you upload is approved for download, the Forum-Op might arrange for you to receive a bonus. All messages posted to this Forum are preserved indefinitely, until erased by the Forum-Op. Welcome, Sysop, to Computing: This section for PC users Select a letter from this list, or X to exit: flfff Date: Monday, October 14, 1991 10:43am Forum: Computing From: Vibrantm Msg#: 88124 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: m-disk.zip File: M-DISK.ZIP (2 replies) McAffee Associates MDISK-ZIP, a 12416 byte file which needs to be used only with the utmost care as it is designed to repair system area sectors of disks and can obliterate information if used under the wrong circumstances; read documentation carfully. Date: Monday, October 14, 1991 11:02am Forum: Computing From: Vibrantm Msg#: 88128 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: vcopy82.zip File: VCOPY82.ZIP (2 replies) This is a McAffee Associates virus treatment file which provides a protected copy mode for file duplication..It is 58632 bytes long. Date: Saturday, November 16, 1991 2:08pm Forum: Computing From: Vibrantm Msg#: 105534 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: chess.zip File: CHESS.ZIP (1 reply) High resolution chess game which has a number of pleasant features such as saved and recallable games, varying difficulty levels. Date: Wednesday, December 25, 1991 11:59am Forum: Computing From: Michael Msg#: 123485 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: atropos.arc File: ATROPOS.ARC Those involved in EMS or allied services might find this program interesting, it is a HAZMAT demo program. DTI you can use this for figuring out new combos for your sikfux posts. Date: Thursday, January 9, 1992 11:42am Forum: Computing From: Magnum44 Msg#: 129706 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: vjpoker.zip File: VJPOKER.ZIP Vegas Johny Draw Poker! Date: Sunday, January 19, 1992 6:38pm Forum: Computing From: Faceman Msg#: 133055 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: -menumat.exe File: -MENUMAT.EXE Shareware program by Kevin Clark called Menu-Matic. Launch upto 80 different programs with a single keystroke. Great for PC users who do not run Windows. Forget about cd\directory etc. This is great. Run Menuinst.exe to install. Full documentation provided. This is a self extracting archive type the filename to self extract. Date: Sunday, January 19, 1992 6:41pm Forum: Computing From: Faceman Msg#: 133059 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: iconedit.zip File: ICONEDIT.ZIP Icon editor for windows. Create your own icons. Date: Sunday, January 19, 1992 6:50pm Forum: Computing From: Faceman Msg#: 133060 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: RCPWIN20.zip File: RCPWIN20.ZIP Recipe Maker version 2.0 for Windows. Shareware. Store any recipes you may have and recall at the click of a mouse button. Make weekly shopping lists etc. Documentation included. Date: Sunday, January 19, 1992 7:32pm Forum: Computing From: Faceman Msg#: 133065 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: bounce.zip File: BOUNCE.ZIP (1 reply) 3D Ping Pong game for a single player. Like regular Ping Pong w/ a twist you compete against the computer on a 3D grid, with the floor, walls and ceiling all legal playing surfaces. Variable levels for use as you get better. Very challenging . Date: Sunday, February 2, 1992 2:14am Forum: Computing From: Chictype Msg#: 136766 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: dtrans.zip File: DTRANS.ZIP DISK transfer utility that replaces DISKCOPY. No need to change back and forth from original to target and can copy from 3.5 to 5.25 (& vice versa) provided density remains the same. GREAT TIMESAVER! Date: Sunday, February 9, 1992 4:56pm Forum: Computing From: Walts Msg#: 140896 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: Hearts File: 140896.ATT Ah to play hearts! To shoot the moon, and to give everyone else 26 points. Well, you don't need to wait for three of your friends, just download this file and away you go. REgards, WaltS Date: Sunday, February 9, 1992 5:08pm Forum: Computing From: Walts Msg#: 140901 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: Spades File: 140901.ATT Like to take tricks, but don't want to remember detail bidding conventions, then... Let Spades be trump and take as many tricks as you can. Just download this file... REgards, WaltS Date: Sunday, February 9, 1992 5:18pm Forum: Computing From: Walts Msg#: 140902 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: Dominoes File: 140902.ATT (1 reply) Are you a serious Dominoes player. Do you have any idea what serious Dominoe playing is about? I didn't until I downloaded this file. Try it, I think you will like it... REgards, WaltS Date: Saturday, February 15, 1992 3:37pm Forum: Computing From: Vibrantm Msg#: 143389 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: LK.EXE File: LK.EXE This 8K file easily toggles the Num Lock, Caps Lock, Scroll Lock, and Ins keys any time -- put it in your Autoexec.BAT to get rid of the usually-inconvenient Num Lock on function at startup. Date: Saturday, February 29, 1992 6:55am Forum: Computing From: Walts Msg#: 151420 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: Eucher, The Game File: 151420.ATT [hope I spelled it right] Ok, remember that game you just never could understand. Well now there's a way to finally figure out the game of Eucher! From claiming the trump card, to naming trump after all have passed; from going alone to the trump order [Jack of Trump, Jack of Other Suit same color, Ace, King --- to the nine], it's all there. BTW, after the learning period is over, this ain't such a bad game! REgards, WaltS Date: Sunday, March 15, 1992 1:19pm Forum: Computing From: Vibrantm Msg#: 160874 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: ztec61b.zip File: ZTEC61B.ZIP This is a system which permits virus scanning within archived files, like .ZIP or .ARJ files. It is about 96K and was updated a short while ago to work with the latest (V86B) releases of McAfee virus products. Date: Tuesday, March 31, 1992 10:56am Forum: Computing From: Vibrantm Msg#: 170389 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: VIDEOID.EXE File: VIDEOID.EXE (1 reply) Handy utility which does a fast and comprehensive job of detecting and discussing your PC's video characteristics. It automatically writes to a small text file called VIDEOID.TXT. Under 10K, too! Date: Sunday, April 12, 1992 2:01pm Forum: Computing From: Vibrantm Msg#: 176904 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: mandelw3.zip File: MANDELW3.ZIP Compact Windows program which allows a fractal image play session; under 31K! Date: Monday, April 13, 1992 3:04pm Forum: Computing From: Vibrantm Msg#: 177386 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: raysamp.gif File: RAYSAMP.GIF Image which I created using the Ray Tracing software just uploaded. This is a GIF about 143K and measuring 1024 x 768 pixels, 256 colors. Date: Wednesday, April 15, 1992 11:50am Forum: Computing From: Vibrantm Msg#: 178523 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: qwkchk.zip File: QWKCHK.ZIP An efficient small program which checks .GIF files for integrity; saves space by chopping superfluous extra bytes at the end of some of the files. Date: Thursday, April 16, 1992 1:13pm Forum: Computing From: Vibrantm Msg#: 178926 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: NTREAL.GIF File: NTREAL.GIF (1 reply) This 290K GIF file is an elaborate graphic generated by the Ray Tracing program "Persistence of Vision" whose files I uploaded 13 April in this SIG. It used the data file "NTREAL.DAT" to generate a 1024 x 768 x 256 color file with very fine dithering in the config file. It took over twelve hours to run on a 486-33mhz IBM compatible. Actually the GIF is the conversion from the raw output .TGA file which itself was over 2.3 megabytes. Date: Sunday, May 10, 1992 5:43am Forum: Computing From: Rpm Msg#: 192163 To: Lastjudge *EXEMPT* Re: yearcal.exe File: YEARCAL.EXE (Reply to #186733, Reply to #183880,*) Okay, here it is. It's a self extracting ZIP file. Just put it someplace and type "YEARCAL." R. Paul Martin Date: Thursday, May 14, 1992 8:37pm Forum: Computing From: Vibrantm Msg#: 194312 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: slk23.zip File: SLK23.ZIP "Sleek" handy compact (11k) text file processor. It creates files of specific line lengths -- or even strips all line feeds -- from any text file. This will be especially handy for people trying to avoid inelegant line wraps as they do text uploads of posts here. I suggest experimentation with the parameters -- feed back ? Date: Thursday, May 14, 1992 8:53pm Forum: Computing From: Vibrantm Msg#: 194324 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: snip23.zip File: SNIP23.ZIP "Snipper" very easy screen grabber utility from the staff of PC Magazine - upgraded edition and only 16K. Date: Friday, May 15, 1992 9:30am Forum: Computing From: Vibrantm Msg#: 194575 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: LACE_12.ZIP File: LACE_12.ZIP This 47K archive contains a new offering in PC configuration selection utilities. Date: Monday, June 1, 1992 2:14am Forum: Computing From: Vibrantm Msg#: 201996 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: nycity.zip File: NYCITY.ZIP Tour de force of new technology and its impact on mapping. This starts with a full screen of lower Manhattan views (just south of Central Park to the Battery). It allows zooming in on any block in that area, including the user's request by street name and number in an instant move to the right grid locale. 262K. Date: Sunday, June 14, 1992 4:02pm Forum: Computing From: Hulkster Msg#: 206141 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: zipwarn.txt File: ZIPWARN.TXT (2 replies) This a critical warning to any one using pkunzip for the files. Please be warned. Date: Wednesday, June 17, 1992 11:41am Forum: Computing From: Vibrantm Msg#: 206749 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: pksfan11.zip File: PKSFAN11.ZIP TSR which prevents "ANSI Bomb" activity - where typing a file loaded with ANSI escape sequences can perform mischief such as remapping commands to erase files, etc., to your ENTER key. Date: Wednesday, July 15, 1992 2:53am Forum: Computing From: Stuntman Msg#: 216866 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: winback31.zip program File: 216866.ATT (Fw by Sysop) Z~Hi Ed & Debbie, Enclosed you will find a zipped Windows Backup Program for your BBS. if you use windows,this is a nice addition to the windows environment. This is a shareware program,so if you don't use windows...pass it on.. and enjoy.................. Stuntman Date: Tuesday, July 21, 1992 2:43pm Forum: Computing From: Ton Msg#: 219434 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: hachrept.txt File: HACHREPT.TXT July 1992 report of hacked files interesting reading. Date: Sunday, July 26, 1992 11:05am Forum: Computing From: Vibrantm Msg#: 221107 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: WPTOOL51.ZIP File: WPTOOL51.ZIP (1 reply) Shareware providing tools to handle word perfect files. Date: Sunday, July 26, 1992 11:11am Forum: Computing From: Vibrantm Msg#: 221112 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: WPDRAW.WPM File: WPDRAW.WPM Documentation to a simple little macro which I will provide here. ___________________________________________________ File WPDRAW.DOC, 2763 bytes long The idea behind WPDRAW is that it is a tedious task to search for that "just right" graphic with the tools provided with WordPerfect. WPDRAW will allow you to browse through a long set of WordPerfect graphics files very quickly. To use WPDRAW you can either have it prompt you for the file name(s) or enter them on the command line. You can, of course, enter wildcards. If you give WPDRAW a directory name it will display all *.wpg files in it. For help on wildcards see your dos manual. There are three command line options that can be used with WPDRAW: /S Recurse subdirectories. /Ds Display each file for s seconds. /W Skip files that are not WPG files. (normally WPDRAW will prompt and wait) Examples: WPDRAW \*.* /s /d10 /w This would display every WPG file on the current drive, regardless of whether or not the file ends with .WPG, for 10 seconds each. Alternatively you can enter: WPDRAW \ /s /d10 /w This will speed up the search as it will only look for files that actually end in .WPG. WPDRAW . Displays all the .WPG files in the current directory. WPDRAW works with all the standard graphics cards, CGA, MCGA, Herc, EGA and VGA. In monochrome modes WPDRAW will attempt shading. WPDRAW is geared towards displaying vector graphics but will accurately display bitmaps. The contrast on bitmaps can changed with the C and V keys. Enclosed is a macro that works with WP 5.1 to use WPDRAW from within WordPerfect. Place the WPDRAW.WPM file in your WordPerfect macros/keyboards directory. In you wish you can rename it to ALT?.WPM. This would allow you to use it as a single stroke macro. This macros will only work with WordPerfect 5.1 PLEASE NOTE! WPDRAW is not affiliated with WP Corp. If you are having trouble importing graphics into WordPerfect please consult your WP manual or call WP tech support. WPDRAW ONLY displays graphics quickly and conveniently. It will NOT print them. If you are having trouble with WPDRAW, I can be reached voice at 617-965-8091. If you use this program more than once you should seriously consider making a donation. A donation of $15 or more will entitle you to two update notices. A donation of $25 or more will entitle you to one free upgrade and two update notices. If you plan on including WPDRAW with a collection of GRAPHICS and are receiving money for these for any reason (including but not limited to: shipping, handling, copying etc...) the $25 donation is mandatory. WPDRAW comes with no guarantee whatsoever, even if you have made a donation. Please send donations, job offers or source code requests to: WPDRAW c/o Kenneth Macleod 36 Howland Rd. West Newton, MA 02165 Date: Thursday, August 6, 1992 1:34am Forum: Computing From: Vibrantm Msg#: 225976 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: NAPTERM1.ZIP File: NAPTERM1.ZIP NAPS 1.0-TP TBBS NAPLPS Terminal Program Documentation 07/29/92 update 08/04/92 (c)1992 Advanced Systems Research, Inc. 1475 Terminal Way Bldg C2 Reno, Nevada 89502 USA (702) 334-3304 --- Intro As this is the introduction of the Beta version of NAPS 1.0 Terminal Program and as no other system as of the publishing of these first DOCS has the NAPS 1.0 System Control and Transmission Software (NAPS 1.0-SCTS for TBBS), I will give you the number for my TBBS 16 Line System. For 2400 Bps callers use 702-334-3308 and for 9600 and higher use 702-334-3320. My system has a complete NAPLPS access. For TBBS SYSOPS, please refer to the ACCESS.ASR file on the ESOFT support board for instructions on how to gain TBBS Sysop access to my system. --- Intro addendum This terminal program has now been in the hands of TBBS sysops for about a week and I have received hundreds of calls. Distribution of the TBBS control system starts today so I see that it will not be long before my system is not the only system that this terminal program will access. I will maintain a list of known systems that contain NAPLPS access and you may access my system for this list. NAPLPS has such a diverse implimentation that I am sure that there will be some very unusual system coming online soon. --- Use of the Program and NAPLPS NAPS 1.0 is a communication package that interprets ANSI, VT100, VT52 and TTY control syntax in a textual display, or the North American Presentation Layer Protocol Syntax (NAPLPS) in a graphical display on TBBS systems running the NAPS 1.0 system control and transmission software. The NAPS 1.0 terminal program is offer as SHAREWARE and a contribution of 19.95 would make the author very happy. It may be freely distributed by TBBS SYSOPS and the file BBS.NAP may have edited using the MGE naplps frame editor to indicate that NAPS 1.0 was provided by the SYSOPS system. All other files must remain intact. NOTE: In order to use the NAPLPS graphic display on TBBS, you must be configured on TBBS for both ANSI and GRAPHICS. NAPLPS is a government standard (ANSI-X3.110-1983/CSA-T500-1983) for the encoding of alpha-numeric, alpha-mosaic, alpha-geometric and alpha- photographic constructs. This syntax is based on the international standards ISO-2022 and ISO-2375. NAPLPS is a resolution independent and device independent syntax and NAPS 1.0 is the TERMINAL communications program that allows complete NAPLPS and ANSI display decoding for TBBS systems using the proprietary NAPS 1.0 TBBS system control and transmission software. For more information regarding the NAPS 1.0 system control and transmission software, call Advanced Systems Research at the number above. The software can be programmed with modem control sequences to dial a service and communicate asynchronously. Many TBBS systems are being changed in the U.S. and Canada to support switching between a textual presentation and graphical presentation and are using NAPLPS as the graphics syntax. --- Program Setup and Screen Drivers A selection of device dependent screen drivers is included with the program. The user must choose the language of the user interface and the screen driver that corresponds to the graphics card in the computer. The batch file NAPSET.BAT sets up the program for use. Type NAPSET followed by the name of the screen driver. Optional arguments can be added for screen driver configuration parameters (no parameters are required if the defaults are satisfactory). examples: NAPSET VGA640 NAPSET TARGA16.SCR NAPSET ARGA16.SCR +AE000 +P2E8 --- Device Dependent Screen Driver The following screen drivers are included with the software (a list of many more screen drivers are available). The title page of the program is displayed using the NAPLPS syntax. If the ADVANCED SYSTEM RESEARCH logo does not appear on the title page, it is likely that the wrong driver was selected when you ran NAPSET. Run NAPSET again and select a different driver. Note that various trademarks and copyrights for the graphics boards are owned by their respective manufacturers. CGA640.SCR 640x200 B&W (colours mimicked with dither patterns) CGA Mode 06 graphics mode. EGA640.SCR 640x350 16 out of 64 colours with blink EGA Mode 10 graphics mode; 256K video memory required EGA640E.SCR 640x200 16 out of 16 colours with blink EGA Mode 0E graphics mode; 64K video memory required EGA640F.SCR 640x350 B&W (colours mimicked with dither patterns) EGA Mode 0F monochrome graphics mode HER720.SCR 720x348 B&W (colours mimicked with dither patterns) Hercules graphics mode Default arguments: +AB000 (or +AB800) LCD640.SCR 256x200 B&W (colours mimicked with dither patterns) CGA Mode 06 graphics mode (reverse video CGA640.SCR with narrow display width) MCGA320.SCR 320x200 256 out of 262,144 colours with blink MCGA Mode 13 graphics mode T3100.SCR 640x400 B&W (colours mimicked with dither patterns) Toshiba 3100 and Grid graphics modes TARGA16.SCR 512x400 256 out of 32,768 colours without blink Truevision Targa 16 graphics mode Default arguments: +AA000 (or +Aaddress) +P220 (or +Pport) TRS1000.SCR 320x200 16 out of 16 colours with blink Tandy Radio Shack and Pcjr Mode 09 graphics mode VDA256.SCR 256x200 256 out of 32,768 colours with blink Truevision VDA graphics mode Default arguments: +AA000 (or +Aaddress) +P3E8 (or +Pport) VGA320.SCR 320x200 256 out of 262,144 colours with blink VGA Mode 13 graphics mode VGA640.SCR 640x480 16 out of 262,144 colours with blink VGA Mode 12 graphics mode --- Program use After you have configured NAPS 1.0 for you video driver, you can invoke NAPS by entering "NAP". You must then configure NAPS for your communications port, baud rate, parity, stop bits and duplex. To access the command help menu, press ALT-Z from the terminal screen. You can then highlight the desired command. Once you have connected to a TBBS system running NAPS 1.0 system control and transmission software, you can switch to NAPLPS graphics mode by pressing CTRL-HOME after you have come to the SYSTEMS MAIN MENU. By pressing CTRL-HOME again you will switch back to ANSI display mode. NAPS will switch automatically between NAPLPS and ANSI when a NAPLPS menu display is not available on the system that your are calling. --- Limited Warranty The programs are provided "AS IS" without any warranty or condition, express or implied, including but not limited to the implied warranties or conditions of merchantable quality and fitness for a particular purpose and those arising by statute or otherwise in law or from a course or dealing or usage of trade. The entire risk as to the quality and performance of the program is with you. Should the program prove defective, you (and not Advanced Systems Research, Inc. or an authorized Advanced Systems Research dealer) assume the entire cost of all necessary servicing, repair or correction. Without limiting the foregoing, Advanced Systems Research does not warrant that the functions contained in the program(s) will meet your requirements Date: Tuesday, August 11, 1992 1:08pm Forum: Computing From: Walts Msg#: 228088 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: Equicopy.zip File: EQUICOPY.ZIP (1 reply) Need to copy from a 3 1/4 to a 5 1/2 diskette? This program will allow it. It is a recent upgrade to Equicopy, correcting a problem with older hardware. Please read the DOC file for certain warnings. DL'd from the IBM BBS. REgards, WaltS Date: Tuesday, August 11, 1992 9:33pm Forum: Computing From: Strider Msg#: 228333 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: ZIPSP11.ZIP File: ZIPSP11.ZIP A Zip spliting utility... No instructions needed.. Date: Wednesday, August 12, 1992 5:02pm Forum: Computing From: Vibrantm Msg#: 228633 To: Strider *EXEMPT* Re: umbdr522.zip File: UMBDR522.ZIP (Reply to #227182) Here is some shareware which allows you to use your extended memory. Date: Wednesday, August 12, 1992 5:05pm Forum: Computing From: Vibrantm Msg#: 228635 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: NJRAMDX.ZIP File: NJRAMDX.ZIP Shareware RAM disk for IBM. Date: Thursday, August 20, 1992 7:37am Forum: Computing From: Rpm Msg#: 231675 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: geoclk.zip File: GEOCLK.ZIP (1 reply) Here's the latest version of Geoclock. Fund shareware. File name is GEOCLK.ZIP. Date: Friday, August 21, 1992 1:12pm Forum: Computing From: Vibrantm Msg#: 232258 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: emjr123.zip File: EMJR123.ZIP This envelope printing software actually can also dial the post office and look up a ZIP+4 code on their CD rom and affix it to your address. Date: Friday, August 21, 1992 1:34pm Forum: Computing From: Vibrantm Msg#: 232260 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: box400.zip File: BOX400.ZIP BOXER Text Editor v4.00 - top rated editor! New: 26 clipboard areas and a Clipboard Mgr, support for DESQview, better handling of multiple compilers, synchronized scrolling, faster file writes. Also new: auto-frame of marked columns, full-line marking mode, and 50+ other new features. Still: multi-level undo, full mouse support, keyboard reconfig, menus, macros, mouse, S&R, word processing... Shareware ($35-50) from David R. Hamel. Date: Sunday, September 20, 1992 1:18am Forum: Computing From: Vibrantm Msg#: 236818 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: GFB101.ZIP *Lossless* .GIF file compressor File: GFB101.ZIP This file is shareware which claims to compress .GIF files without losing any resolution or any other information. I tested it and did a rigorous compare on the decompressed versus original files, and was pleasantly surprised to see that it works. This is worth a close look. Date: Monday, September 21, 1992 9:04pm Forum: Computing From: Vibrantm Msg#: 237176 To: Lythande *EXEMPT* Re: WEDDING2.ZIP Shareware you might use! File: WEDDING2.ZIP (1 reply) What better present from a BBS member than shareware which says it will help plan a wedding guest list, table placement, gift records and checklist of invitations, thank you notes, etc.? Let me know if you find it useful. Date: Friday, January 29, 1993 12:26am Forum: Computing From: Vibrantm Msg#: 297815 To: Lythande *EXEMPT* Re: WP 5.1 Document Assembly (Reply to #297597, Reply to #295178, Reply to #294968, R*) (1 reply) Yes, there are really SEVERAL specialized free numbers. In fact I just unarchived an April, 1992, phone list which comes directly from the Word Perfect Corporation BBS: ------------------------------------------------------------------- INTEROFFICE MEMORANDUM DATE: March 13, 1992 FROM: Info. Center PRODUCT: N/A VERSION: N/A RELEASE DATE: N/A SUBJECT: WordPerfect Customer Support Numbers Any numbers marked with an asterisk ca be accessed from Canada. Department 800 801 After Hours Support . . . . . . .-----. . . . . . 222-9010 Amiga . . . . . . . . . . . . . .321-3204*. . . . 226-4147 Apple . . . . . . . . . . . .. .752-744*. . . . 226-8300 Atari . . . . . . . . . . . . . .321-3271*. . . . 226-8660 Connections/Gateways. . . . . .----. . . . . . 226-6944 ConvertPerfect. . . . . . . . . .321_0276*. . . . ----- Data General. . . . . . . . . . .-----. . . . . . 222-4100 DataPerfect . . . . . . . . . . .321-3249*. . . . 225-5700 DrawPerfect . . . . . . . . . . .541-5098*. . . . 226-8766 Executive . . . . . . . . . . . .321-2186*. . . . 228-9903 Features. . . . . . . . . . . . .541-5096*. . . . 226-7900 Graphics/Tables/Equations . . . .321-3383*. . . . ----- Hearing Impaired . . . . . . .321-3256*. . . . 222-6050 IBM 370 . . . . . . . . . . . . .-----. . . . . . 222-5100 Installation. . . . . . . . . . .533-9605*. . . . 226-5444 International (French). . . . . .321-6844*. . . . 226-6990 International (Spanish) . . . . .321-8492*. . . . 226-6990 Language Modules. . . . . . . . .321-7431*. . . . 226-6990 LetterPerfect/RP. . . . . . . . .321-2185*. . . . 228-9902 Library/Office. . . . . . . . . .321-3253*. . . . 226-4440 Macintosh . . . . . . . . . . . .336-3614*. . . . 226-5522 Macintosh (French). . . . . . . .321-2713*. . . . ----- Macros/Merge/Labels/Columns . . .541-5129*. . . . ----- NeXT. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .-----. . . . . . 228-9910 Networks. . . . . . . . . . . . .321-3389*. . . . 226-4777 OS/2. . . . . . . . . . . . . .321-1230*. . . . 225-4900 . .321-3248*. . . . 226-2690 Poquet PC . . . . . . . . . . . .321-2294*. . . . ----- Printer - Dot Matrix . . . . . . 541-5160*. . . . 226-7977 Printer - Laser/PostScript. . . .541-5170*. . . . 226-7977 Rhymer. . . . . . . . . . . . . .321-2196*. . . . 228-9901 Unix/Xenix. . . . . . . . . . . .-----. . . . . . 226-5333 Vax/VMS . . . . . . . . . . . . .-----. . . . . . 226-4180 WordPerfect Works . . . . . . . .321-3512*. . . . ----- WordPefect for Windows 800 801 Local Number. . . . . . . . . . .-----. . . . . . 228-9907 After Hours . . . . . . . . . . .-----. . . . . . 228-9908 Features. . . . . . . . . . . . .228-1029*. . . . ----- Graphics. . . . . . . . . . . . .228-6013*. . . . ----- Macros/Merge/Labels . . . . . . .228-1032*. . . . ----- Installation. . . . . . . . . . .228-6076*. . . . ----- Networks. . . . . . . . . . . . .228-6066*. . . ----- Printer - Dot-Matrix . . . . . .228-1017*. . . . ----- Printer - Laser . . . . . . . . .228-1023*. . . . ----- ---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*--- BBS IBM (Baud 1200-2400). . . . . . . . . . . . . 225-4414 BBS High Speed (Baud 9600-38400). . . . . . . . . 225-4444 BBS 68000 (Baud 1200-2400). . . . . . . . . . . . 226-1605 BBS Unix (Baud 1200-2400) . . . . . . . . . . . . 228-9909 BBS Support (voice only). . . . .-----. . . . . . 228-9904 Customer Support FAX. . . . . . .-----. . . . . . 222-4377 Developer's Tool Kit. . . . . . .FAX info to: . . 228-7777 Developer's Tool Kit Support. . .-----. . . . . . 228-7710 Registration FAX. . . . . . . . .-----. . . . . . 222-4577 Registration. . . . . . . . . . .-----. . . . . . 222-4555 Update Info. Hotline. . . . . . .321-5906 . . . . 226-4444 Piracy Hotline. . . . . . . . . .-----. . . . . . ---24449 Department 800 801 Orders French Info/Orders. . . . . . . .321-2318*. . . . 222-5050 Info Services . . . . . . . . . .451-5151*. . . . 225-5000 Orders. . . . . . . . . . . . . .321-4566 . . . . 222-5684 WP Manufact . . . . . . . . . . .-----. . . . . . 221-5300 WP Manufact (US Research) . . . .526-6215 . . . . ----- WP Manufact (Canada Research) . .446-4652 . . . . ----- SoftCopy Returns (Canada) . . . .446-4652 . . . . ----- Software Subscription . . . . . .526-6215 . . . . 221-5360 Special Orders & Offers . . . . .321-2319 . . . . ---45397 Spanish Info. . . . . . . . . . .-----. . . . . . 225-5000 Unix Marketing. . . . . . . . . .-----. . . . . . 222-5300 Unix and Xenix Orders . . . . . .321-3280*. . . . 225-5000 Vax Orders. . . . . . . . . . . .248-2680*. . . . 225-5000 Other Bitstream Support . . . . . . . .617-497-7514 Bitstream Main Number . . . . . .617-497-6222 Bitstream Sales Info. . . . . . .800-522-3668 WordPerfect Magazine. . . . . . .801-226-5555 Memo ID: POL_145K Date: Thursday, July 15, 1993 1:29pm Forum: Computing From: Vibrantm Msg#: 378739 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: IFPLS157.ZIP Complete IBM PC System Identifier File: IFPLS157.ZIP Newly updated, this 26 June 1993 Release 1.57 of InfoPlus is a very thorough shareware package which detects scores of important facts about PC hardware and software. The user can page through the screens interactively or save all diagnosis screens to a file for later printing or browsing. Date: Thursday, September 16, 1993 1:39am Forum: Computing From: Vibrantm Msg#: 391958 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: COMMO551.ZIP Shareware Communications Program File: COMMO551.ZIP August 1993 update to simple yet elegant shareware IBM compatible communications package. Date: Thursday, October 14, 1993 11:31pm Forum: Computing From: Mindless Msg#: 401864 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: lha.zip File: LHA.ZIP new compression format... makes files exactly 1k smaller than pkzip 2.xx & is slightly faster... mindless. Date: Monday, November 8, 1993 3:24pm Forum: Computing From: Vibrantm Msg#: 412711 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: QPEG10D.ZIP Allows Direct View of JPEG Images File: QPEG10D.ZIP This is a fast shareware viewer from Germany which allows direct view of JPEG images without prior processing (i.e. conversion to other format). Date: Thursday, September 28, 1995 4:39pm Forum: Computing From: Indranie Msg#: 637409 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: WIN95 with LANtastic Network File: W95LNT.TXT I download this text file from ARTISOFT, Inc. It's interesting reading for Network Admin. Date: Monday, October 2, 1995 8:54am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 639045 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: Creation text (Copy by Lythande) (1 reply) -------------< COMMENTS BY Lythande >-------------- ----------< END OF COMMENTS BY Lythande >---------- Found this on the net. I tried to post this before and screwed up. I am running late, so I will not do my usual thing of editing out the headers. Sorry. Read it anyway, I think it's cute. I'm just running late. From owner-earth-spirit@csf.colorado.edu Sun Oct 1 11:41 EDT 1995 Received: from csf.Colorado.EDU (csf.Colorado.EDU [128.138.129.195]) by mail.nyc.pipeline.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA15159 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 11:41:08 -0400 Received: from host (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.6.11/8.6.9/CNS-3.5) with SMTP id JAA06483; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 09:25:55 -0600 Received: from efn.efn.org (efn.org [198.68.17.1]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.6.11/8.6.9/CNS-3.5) with SMTP id JAA06293 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 09:20:59 -0600 Received: from caritas.efn.org by efn.efn.org (4.1/smail2.5/05-07-92) id AA11994; Sun, 1 Oct 95 08:20:47 PDT Received: from garcia.efn.org (garcia.efn.org [198.68.17.5]) by caritas.efn.org (8.7/8.7) with SMTP id IAA09987 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 08:20:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by garcia.efn.org (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02454; Sun, 1 Oct 95 08:20:54 PDT Message-Id: Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 08:20:54 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: earth-spirit@csf.colorado.edu Sender: owner-earth-spirit@csf.colorado.edu From: Liath Mactire To: EARTH-SPIRIT Subject: for your amusement In-Reply-To: <950930234039_113463117@emout04.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Cc: EARTH-SPIRIT X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.1 -- ListProcessor by CREN Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 5058 <---- Begin Forwarded Message ----> IN THE BEGINNING [author unknown] In the beginning there was the computer. And God said %Let there be light! #Enter user id. %God #Enter password. %Omniscient #Password incorrect. Try again. %Omnipotent #Password incorrect. Try again. %Technocrat #And God logged on at 12:01:00 AM, Sunday, March 1. %Let there be light! #Unrecognizable command. Try again. %Create light #Done %Run heaven and earth #And God created Day and Night. And God saw there were 0 errors. #And God logged off at 12:02:00 AM, Sunday, March 1. #Approx. funds remaining: $92.50. #And God logged on at 12:01:00 AM, Monday, March 2. %Let there be firmament in the midst of water and light #Unrecognizable command. Try again. %Create firmament #Done. %Run firmament #And God divided the heavans. And God saw there were 0 errors. #And God logged off at 12:02:00 AM, Monday, March 2. #Approx. funds remaining: $84.60. #And God logged on at 12:01:00 AM, Tuesday, March 3. %Let the waters under heaven be gathered together unto one place and let the dry land appear and #Too many characters in specification string. Try again. %Create dry_land #Done. %Run dry_land #And God divided the waters. And God saw there were 0 errors. #And God logged off at 12:02:00 AM, Tuesday, March 3. #Approx. funds remaining: $65.00. #And God logged on at 12:01:00 AM, Wednesday, March 4. %Create lights in the firmament to divide the day from the night #Unspecified type. Try again. %Create sun_moon_stars #Done %Run sun_moon_stars #And God created the heavens. And God saw there were 0 errors. #And God logged off at 12:02:00 AM, Wednesday, March 4. #Approx. funds remaining: $54.00. #And God logged on at 12:01:00 AM, Thursday, March 5. %Create fish #Done %Create fowl #Done %Run fish, fowl #And God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that creepeth wherewith the waters swarmed after its kind and every winged fowl after its kind. And God saw there were 0 errors. #And God logged off at 12:02:00 AM, Thursday, March 5. #Approx. funds remaining: $45.00. #And God logged on at 12:01:00 AM, Friday, March 6. %Create cattle #Done %Create creepy_things #Done %Now let us make man in our image #Unspecified type. Try again. %Create man #Done %Be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth and subdue it and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the fowl of the air and over every living thing that creepeth upon the earth #Too many command operands. Try again. %Run multiplication #Execution terminated. 6 errors. %Insert breath #Done %Run multiplication #Execution terminated. 5 errors. %Move man to Garden of Eden #File Garden of Eden does not exist. %Create Garden.edn #Done %Move man to Garden.edn #Done %Run multiplication #Execution terminated. 4 errors. %Copy woman from man #Done %Run multiplication #Execution terminated. 3 errors. %Insert woman into man #Illegal parameters. Try again. %Insert man into woman #Done %Run multiplication #Execution terminated. 2 errors. %Create desire #Done %Run multiplication #And God saw man and woman being fruitful and multiplying in Garden.edn #Warning: No time limit on this run. 1 errors. %Create freewill #Done %Run freewill #And God saw man and woman being fruitful and multiplying in Garden.edn #Warning: No time limit on this run. 1 errors. %Undo desire #Desire cannot be undone once freewill is created. %Destroy freewill #Freewill is an inaccessible file and cannot be destroyed. #Enter replacement, cancel, or ask for help. %Help #Desire cannot be undone once freewill is created. #Freewill is an inaccessible file and cannot be destroyed. #Enter replacement, cancel, or ask for help. %Create tree_of_knowledge #And God saw man and woman being fruitful and multiplying in Garden.edn #Warning: No time limit on this run. 1 errors. %Create good, evil #Done %Activate evil #And God saw he had created shame. #Warning system error in sector E95. Man and woman not in Garden.edn. #1 errors. %Scan Garden.edn for man, woman #Search failed. %Delete shame #Shame cannot be deleted once evil has been activated. %Destroy freewill #Freewill is an inaccessible file and cannot be destroyed. #Enter replacement, cancel, or ask for help. %Stop #Unrecognizable command. Try again %Break %Break %Break #ATTENTION ALL USERS *** ATTENTION ALL USERS: COMPUTER GOING DOWN FOR REGULAR DAY OF MAINTENANCE AND REST IN FIVE MINUTES. PLEASE LOG OFF. %Create new world #You have exceeded your allocated file space. You must destroy old files before new ones can be created. %Destroy earth #Destroy earth: Please confirm. %Destroy earth confirmed #COMPUTER DOWN *** COMPUTER DOWN. SERVICES WILL RESUME SUNDAY, MARCH 8 AT 6:00 AM. YOU MUST SIGN OFF NOW. #And God logged off at 11:59:59 PM, Friday, March 6. #Approx. funds remaining: $0.00. Date: Monday, December 25, 1995 10:55am Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 660959 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: The TRUTH at last! (2 replies) *********************************************************** PRESS RELEASE: Novell admits aiding Microsoft In a joint press conference early this morning, the Chief Executives of Microsoft and Novell revealed that their companies had been working together to increase Microsoft's dominance of the computer industry. In a secret partnership with Microsoft, Novell has been strategically acquiring Microsoft's major competitors in the software industry and ruining them. The relationship goes back a number of years, according to Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates. "[Digital Research's] DR-DOS 5.0 was ten times the operating system that MS-DOS 4.01 was. We couldn't even steal technology fast enough to compete. That was when we first contacted Novell." Under direction from Microsoft, Novell then purchased Digital Research, a small California company best known for its CP/M operating system. Novell CEO Bob Frankenburg continued, "We let the developers release DR-DOS 6.0, which unfortunately was a success, but then we jumped in with both feet. By the time we were done with it, Novell DOS 7 wouldn't even interoperate well with NetWare!" All development on Digital Research's product was subsequently halted in September 1994. Frankenberg also explained their second target. "When it became obvious that Windows NT wouldn't be able to hold a candle to Unix, it was agreed that Novell should buy Unix Systems Laboratories from AT&T to destroy it." The destruction of Unix was accomplished by Novell's pushing of the UnixWare abomination and by carefully planned licensing fiascoes. "Once the damage was complete, we pushed it off on SCO [Santa Cruz Operation] last month." The latest joint venture was the destruction of Microsoft's competition in the Windows application market. "Under the guise of creating a rival suite, Novell bought up Wordperfect and Quattro Pro," Gates explained. "With our direction, all OS/2 development was halted and significant bugs were introduced in the release cycle. [Microsoft] Excel wasn't half the spreadsheet that Quattro Pro was when Borland owned it, and look at us now!" Novell's intention to sell the PerfectOffice Suite was announced on October 30. "We're done," said Frankenberg. When asked about the prospect of competition from the new software giant created by the IBM/Lotus merger, Frankenburg replied, "We expect IBM to do a better job of destroying Lotus than we could have ever done." Many industry insiders were taken by surprise. "It explains a lot," said Hewlett Packard employee Mike Lund. "We never could figure out what the hell Novell thought they were doing with Unix." --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Monday, December 11, 1995 11:06am Forum: Computing From: Indranie Msg#: 666408 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: Microsoft (Copy by Lythande) Top 10 Ways Microsoft Would Change The Auto Business 10. New seats would require everyone to have the same butt size 09. We'd all have to switch to Microsoft Gas 08. The U.S. government would get subsidies from an automaker-a first. 07. The oil, alternator, gas, and engine warning lights would be replaced by a single 'General Car Fault' warning light. 06. Sun Motorsystems would make a car that was solar-powered, twice as reliable, five times as fast, but ran on only 5% of the roads. 05. You would be constantly pressured to upgrade your car. 04. You could have only one person in the car at a time,unless you bought Car95 or Car NT-but then you would have to by more seats. 03. Occasionally your car would die for no apparent reason and you would have to restart it. Strangely, you would just accept this as normal. 02. Every time the lines on the road were repainted, you'd have to buy a new car. 01. People would get excited about the new features of Microsoft cars, forgetting that the same features of Microsoft cars, has been available from other carmakers for years. Driven: In a world where Microsoft make cars, all roads would lead to Redmond. Date: Tuesday, January 23, 1996 10:17pm Forum: Computing From: Indranie Msg#: 669614 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: Mom Was right: Be Presistent File: MOM.TXT (1 reply) I found this artice on the MS web page and though I share it with my fellow nerds... Date: Thursday, March 7, 1996 7:51pm Forum: Computing From: Indranie Msg#: 683073 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: Burnout Symptoms Burnout! Mounting Business Pressures and Increasing Responsibility are Piling Excessive Stress on Technology Managers. Here Are Some Symptoms of Burnout: 1. Lower motivation at work 2. Extreme Dissatisfaction with the job 3. Sharply lower productivity, lagging effectiveness 4. Persistent feelings of depression 5. Feelings of lost control, helplessness, dread, resentment 6. Panic attacks 7. Increased irritability 8. Persistent headaches, fatigue, and eating and sleeping disorders 9. Substance abuse 10. Family, marital and other relationship problems. Date: Thursday, March 7, 1996 7:52pm Forum: Computing From: Indranie Msg#: 683074 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: Prevent Burnout 21 Ways to Prevent-And Cool-Burnout 1. Periodically rotate and diversify IS tasks 2. Keep up with skills training 3. Encourage creativity 4. Encourage proper diet and exercise 5. Empower staff by allowing them to volunteer for projects 6. Allow telecommuting and flexible office hours-as long as deadlines are met 7. Limit workday distractions such as non-essential meetings, phone calls, E-mail 8. Offer comp time or other rewards for frequent overtime 9. Limit non-essential travel 10. Limit off-hour demands/calls to true emergencies 11. Rotate `on-call' schedule 12. Delegate when possible, but strive to distribute workload and responsibilities fairly 13. Make clear that personal interests should be pursued during after-work hours 14. Respect co-workers' privacy 15. Allow casual dress, if possible 16. Conduct "bureaucracy hashing" sessions to help staff let off steam 17. Provide and encourage feedback 18. Provide stress-management programs and employee referral services 19. Schedule occasional nonwork or social activities to promote group bonding 20. Limit office chatter, gossip and personal calls 21. Say `thank you' more often to acknowledge work well done. Date: Saturday, June 22, 1996 10:04am Forum: Computing From: Walts Msg#: 709929 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: ...I did not make this up ! True story from a Novell NetWire SysOp: ***************** Caller: "Hello, is this Tech Support?" Tech Rep: "Yes, it is. How may I help you?" Caller: "The cup holder on my PC is broken and I am within my warranty period. How do I go about getting that fixed?" Tech Rep: "I'm sorry, but did you say a cup holder?" Caller: "Yes, it's attached to the front of my computer." Tech Rep: "Please excuse me if I seem a bit stumped, it's because I am. Did you receive this as part of a promotional, at a trade show? How did you get this cup holder? Does it have any trademark on it?" Caller: "It came with my computer, I don't know anything about a promotional. It just has '4X' on it." At this point the Tech Rep had to mute the caller, because he couldn't stant it. The caller had been using the load drawer of the CD-ROM drive as a coffee holder, and snapped it off the drive. REgards, WaltS Date: Monday, November 18, 1996 12:02am Forum: Computing From: Conundrum Msg#: 723107 To: Conundrum Re: UNIX (Reply to #714668, Fw by Lythande, Reply to #714611, Rep*) CO>Unix ain't that hard; I ran a unix box continuously for 3 years before CO>it died in january, will run another one as soon as I get a box that can CO>run Linux. Or at least get un-lazy enough to install linux on my Pentium 166. On the other hand, I'm doing some SA duties at work, which is mostly unix boxes. Date: Tuesday, December 10, 1996 6:57pm Forum: Computing From: Mvp Msg#: 724065 To: ** ALL ** Re: internet (Fw by Lythande) (2 replies) Hellow I just got a 286 and I need to get some software. I have good acces to the internet from my collige but I need to know were to find the software. I would apresate any information I could get.(Especaly if I can get windows for the web. Date: Wednesday, December 11, 1996 7:19am Forum: Computing From: Trapper Msg#: 724066 To: ** ALL ** Re: internet (Fw by Lythande, Reply to #724050) -------------< COMMENTS BY Lythande >-------------- TO: MVP ----------< END OF COMMENTS BY Lythande >---------- MV>Hellow I just got a 286 and I need to get some software. I have good MV>acces to the internet from my collige but I need to know were to find MV>the software. I would apresate any information I could get.(Especaly if MV>I can get windows for the web. First of all your computer with a 286 is a dinasour. Its to slow for windows. You need at least a 386 to run windows. And that can be to slow. And at least 8 megs of RTAM. Good luck on finding programs for it. Date: Wednesday, December 11, 1996 11:24pm Forum: Computing From: CyberGod Msg#: 724074 To: ** ALL ** Re: cga oem.inf file request (1 reply) Anybody out there have a oem.inf file for a 6845 crtc, cga adapter (IBM Specific). My Dell vga blew and I've had to replace both, the vga card and monitor with the lessor cga card and color monitor (off my old IBM 5150). Without it, I wouldn't be online at all, but I DO miss my windows. I'm running on dos 6.2 (full) and have win3.1 installed, with the at&t/olivetti, etc setup for display (nothing else works), but there are no cga.inf conventions and apparently, once the cga logo screen passes, windows goes directly into ega mode and poof, my screen disappears. So........................ it would be appreciated if an oem.inf file for cga could be uploaded as an attachment (anybody with an old system and dos 2.0 should have it somewhere). In short... H E L P ! ! ! ~~~~~~~ :) CyberGod ________ Date: Wednesday, December 11, 1996 11:35pm Forum: Computing From: CyberGod Msg#: 724075 To: 2380 Re: Page Fault (Reply to #718911, Reply to #718776, Reply to #718608) 23>I am using Win95 and the program that seems to be going crazy now is 23>Print Shop Deluxe. Any ideas? Sounds like one of the win95 bugs we heard so much about... there is a bugfix program out there somewhere in bbs-land, though. Don't remember which one off hand, but if I come across it, I'll d/l it and up it here. CyberGod ________ Date: Wednesday, December 11, 1996 11:44pm Forum: Computing From: CyberGod Msg#: 724077 To: Quack Re: Comm software under Win 95 (Reply to #718630, Reply to #718529, Reply to #715121, R*) I have QMPro... don't like it at all. Switched to Telix 3.22... much much better. :) CyberGod ________ Date: Friday, December 13, 1996 8:41am Forum: Computing From: Sysop Msg#: 724095 To: CyberGod Re: cga oem.inf file request (Reply to #724074) CY>So........................ it would be appreciated if an oem.inf file CY>for cga could be uploaded as an attachment (anybody with an old system CY>and dos 2.0 should have it somewhere). Well, I don't have the file you are looking for. But, in windows setup, there is a generic cga video driver. You can either type "setup" from a dos prompt while in the c:\windows directory, or double click on "windows setup" from the main program group. Uhh, I guess you better try the first one, you'd have to be running windows to do the second. BTW, nice to see you here again! Ed Date: Friday, December 13, 1996 1:13pm Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 724100 To: Mvp Re: internet (Reply to #724065, Fw by Lythande) (2 replies) M >Hellow I just got a 286 and I need to get some software. I have good M >acces to the internet from my collige but I need to know were to find M >the software. I would apresate any information I could get.(Especaly M >I can get windows for the web. A 286? Good luck. I tried to give mine away and the only charity I could find was one that taught computer repair. I'm not even sure that you can run Windows 3.1 on a 286. You might look into one of those chips that turns a 286 into a 386, and compare that to replacing the whole thing. I suspect you could keep the monitor and most of the cards in the box, and just look into a new motherboard, and not get burned too badly. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Friday, December 13, 1996 2:56pm Forum: Computing From: CyberGod Msg#: 724114 To: Editor Re: internet (Reply to #724100, Reply to #724065, Fw by Lythande) Actually, you can install WIN 3.1 on a 286, providing you have 4megs of memory and an excellorator card. It's advisable to upgrade your video and monitor to vga, though (or at the very least, ega). You should also, upgrade your dos to 5.0 or maybe even 6.2 if you can. Remember to save and transfer your cga oem.inf files and drivers, though. In short, just be careful... However, your best bet is to upgrade to at least a 386dx/33Mhz via chip installation. There are chips out there expressly for this purpose. Lastly, what software is needed? Maybe I can help out in that respect. What is your setup? CyberGod ________ ** No, I don't have a 286... I have a 486dx/66Mhz, but can get 286 software, upon request ** Date: Friday, December 13, 1996 4:18pm Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 724117 To: Mvp Re: internet (Reply to #724065, Fw by Lythande) M >Hellow I just got a 286 and I need to get some software. I have good M >acces to the internet from my collige but I need to know were to find M >the software. I would apresate any information I could get.(Especaly M >I can get windows for the web. A 286? Good luck. I tried to give mine away and the only charity I could find was one that taught computer repair. I'm not even sure that you can run Windows 3.1 on a 286. You might look into one of those chips that turns a 286 into a 386, and compare that to replacing the whole thing. I suspect you could keep the monitor and most of the cards in the box, and just look into a new motherboard, and not get burned too badly. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Friday, January 3, 1997 11:56pm Forum: Computing From: Mvp Msg#: 725208 To: Editor Re: internet (Reply to #724100, Reply to #724065, Fw by Lythande) (2 replies) ED>M >Hellow I just got a 286 and I need to get some software. I have good ED>M >acces to the internet from my collige but I need to know were to find ED>M >the software. I would apresate any information I could get.(Especaly ED>M >I can get windows for the web. ED>A 286? Good luck. I tried to give mine away and the only charity I could ED>find was one that taught computer repair. I'm not even sure that you can ED>run Windows 3.1 on a 286. You might look into one of those chips that ED>turns a 286 into a 386, and compare that to replacing the whole thing. I ED>suspect you could keep the monitor and most of the cards in the box, and ED>just look into a new motherboard, and not get burned too badly. ED>--- Thank You but I do not have the mony for a new computer. I found a place in the city that sell's old ram chipes for $10. Will you tell me more about that chip that changes a 286 to a 386. ED> þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Saturday, January 4, 1997 12:34pm Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 725237 To: Mvp Re: internet (Reply to #725208, Reply to #724100, Reply to #724065, F*) M >ED>A 286? Good luck. I tried to give mine away and the only charity I M >ED>find was one that taught computer repair. I'm not even sure that yo M >ED>run Windows 3.1 on a 286. You might look into one of those chips th M >ED>turns a 286 into a 386, and compare that to replacing the whole thi M >ED>suspect you could keep the monitor and most of the cards in the box M >ED>just look into a new motherboard, and not get burned too badly. M > M >ED>--- M >Thank You but I do not have the mony for a new computer. I found a M >place in the city that sell's old ram chipes for $10. Will you tell m M >more about that chip that changes a 286 to a 386. I got this chip/board from a company called "All Computers". They made something called the "All Charge Card". It was a small board with a 486sx mounted on it and a set of pins on bottom. You had to pull the 286 chip from your mother board, and put the All Charge board in the 286 socket. I installed one on my PS/2 50z to extend its life. The downside is that its not a cheap fix. Remember that the 486sx chip alone is $50-100 dollars. I paid somehting like $300 for the whole setup, and it got me a $25Mhz 486sx in my 286 body. Its a nice improvement, especially if you have a decent amount of RAM, but its miles from a real 486. Again, consider that you are looking at $300 for the conversion, and you need 4-8mb of RAM to run anything decent under Windows nowadays. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Wednesday, January 8, 1997 1:51pm Forum: Computing From: 2380 Msg#: 725720 To: Mvp Re: internet (Reply to #725208, Reply to #724100, Reply to #724065, F*) What place is this that sell RAM for $10? BTW, the upgrade chip you are looking for is made by TI. TigerSoftware, 800-888-4437 sells it for 89.99 or 129.99 with a math co-processor. They also sell one by Evergreen Tech. which goes for between 69.99 - 99.99. Date: Wednesday, January 8, 1997 1:53pm Forum: Computing From: 2380 Msg#: 725721 To: ** ALL ** Re: PS/2 Parts (1 reply) I am trying to locate IBM PS/2 parts for a school. They are trying to network these machines but are having trouble getting the pieces. Microchannel is such a pain. If any one knows of any companies dumping their old PS/2 machines, we can give them a tax deduction. Date: Sunday, January 12, 1997 11:03pm Forum: Computing From: Steve C Msg#: 726224 To: 2380 Re: PS/2 Parts (Reply to #725721) 23>I am trying to locate IBM PS/2 parts for a school. They are trying to 23>network these machines but are having trouble getting the pieces. 23>Microchannel is such a pain. If any one knows of any companies dumping 23>their old PS/2 machines, we can give them a tax deduction. Tell me about it. My memory is failing so I looked into replacing the bad simm. The new simm will cost $65. I only paid 30 for the whole system!!! Date: Friday, March 21, 1997 9:10am Forum: Computing From: Indranie Msg#: 731596 To: ** ALL ** Re: HTML - Java - CGI Hi My company is looking to hire an HTML programmer. Full-time, part-time or contract - if you're an experience in HTML, some Java and CGI, e-mail me some pages you've created and I will take a look at it and contact you. thanks Indranie Date: Monday, May 12, 1997 7:07pm Forum: Computing From: Anthony Msg#: 735407 To: ** ALL ** Re: K6 AMD cpu (2 replies) Does anyone know if the K6 AMD cpu is really better than a Pentium Pro? Date: Thursday, May 22, 1997 3:29am Forum: Computing From: Dti Msg#: 736094 To: Anthony Re: K6 AMD cpu (Reply to #735407) AN>Does anyone know if the K6 AMD cpu is really better than a Pentium Pro? Hell, its prolly better than the P2... --- * SLMR 2.0 * This tagline is yr brain on Drugs hear it move? Date: Saturday, May 31, 1997 9:37pm Forum: Computing From: Dna Msg#: 736575 To: Anthony Re: K6 AMD cpu (Reply to #735407) Clockspeed for clockspeed, running Windows 95, the answer is yes, but running Windows NT or Linux, the Pentium Pro takes the lead again, and currently, the Pentium Pro is available in faster speeds (Intel pushed up their intro time-table to insure that this is so). Date: Saturday, May 31, 1997 9:46pm Forum: Computing From: Dna Msg#: 736576 To: ** ALL ** Re: Need DOS 6.0 or 6.2 (1 reply) I recently pulled my previous system out of moth-balls to donate to the school that my mother teaches at. It's a dinosaur (386/16) but it is good for floppy-floppy conversions (has 2 3.5" and 2 5.25" floppy drives) and is a good word-processing machine under DOS. I wanted to wipe the drive and re-install the system from scratch. I could find the Windows 3.1 disks, but for the life of me I can't find any DOS version higher than 3.3, and I have at least one utility that needs 6.0 or higher. (At one point, I had 5.0 and 6.0) If anybody has system disks for DOS 6.0 or 6.2, and is willing to loan them for this purpose, it would be much appreciated. Windows 95/DOS7, which I have, is not an option, since archaic hardware demands archaic software. Thanks in advance. Date: Saturday, May 31, 1997 9:55pm Forum: Computing From: Dna Msg#: 736577 To: Dna Re: Need DOS 6.0 or 6.2 (Reply to #736576) Nevermind, I finally found my DOS 6.0 upgrade, and my parents found DOS 5.0, so I'm all set. Date: Friday, June 13, 1997 6:46pm Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 737389 To: ** ALL ** Re: Netscape bug? (Fw by Calvin) Here's a post I found on one of my many e mail lists. SECURITY UPDATE A potential security bug may exist in beta versions of Netscape Communicator and 3.x versions of Netscape Navigator. Netscape knows of no reports of successful exploitation of this potential bug, and no customer incidents have been reported. Technical details of the potential bug have not been disclosed to Netscape or the general public by the Internet Consultant from Denmark. Netscape's engineers have attempted on numerous occasions to obtain technical details of the potential problem from the Internet Consultant from Denmark through direct phone and email contact, but without success. Based on the information available, Netscape believes that the potential impact of this bug on users is limited due to the lack of public knowledge of how to replicate the bug. News reports have also indicated that in order to take advantage of the bug, a Web page author would not only need to obtain and understand the undisclosed details of the bug but would also need to obtain specific filenames from users' computers. The Internet Consultant from Denmark did disclose some technical details of the potential bug to specific members of the media. Netscape is working closely with those involved to uncover any technical details that might help in the investigation and verification of this potential problem. Netscape plans to continue vigorously pursuing validation of this potential bug and will develop a fix if necessary. Netscape will keep its customers and partners updated frequently about this issue through the Netscape home page. ------------------------------- Excerpt from CSS Internet News (tm) ,-~-.____ For subscription details email / | ' \ jwalker@tor.hookup.net with ( ) 0 SUBINFO CSSINEWS in the \_/-, ,----' subject line. ==== // / \-'~; /~~(O) "On the Internet no one / __/| / | knows you're a dog" =( _____| (_________| ------------------------------- Date: Sunday, July 6, 1997 11:16am Forum: Computing From: Craze Msg#: 738718 To: ** ALL ** Re: I can't believe it! (Fw by Calvin, Reply to #737615, Reply to #737509, Reply*) -------------< COMMENTS BY Calvin >-------------- TO: Brandy ----------< END OF COMMENTS BY Calvin >---------- BR>I have no clue as to whether they made a super C= I am running on an BR>Intel pentium pc these days.. Yeah that turnpike is a bitch sometimes BR>tho aint it. :) BR>Lottery. Aint we all? BR>:) Hey Brandie, I believe hey (CMD) or whatever they call themselves did make a super C64. Only thing is, IT's TOO Late!! I believe it runs a 20 MHZ. Whoa! 20 MHZ's!! I'm gonna give up my Amiga2000 for a Super C64. NOT!! So tell me. What would consider or suggest buying If I upgrade to a Compatible. I mean, there's so many computers on he market today. I don't want to spend extra money on features I really don't intend on using. I'm considering buying an 486 tto start with. Then when I get used to it, plan on upgrading little by little. But if I could get a decent computer wih some or all features what should I buy? Date: Monday, July 7, 1997 1:51am Forum: Computing From: Dti Msg#: 738719 To: ** ALL ** Re: Real DOS in 95? (Copy by Calvin, Reply to #738267, Reply to #736870, Rep*) (2 replies) -------------< COMMENTS BY Calvin >-------------- TO: DrPax ----------< END OF COMMENTS BY Calvin >---------- DR>I discovered even with Doze 95, I can still get out and get a dos DR>prompt. there's the Dos In A Window (which blows) and the REAL dos, DR>which I'm typing in right now :) Real DOS in 95? Well, you started a thread that is indeed appropriate to the /Fantasy sig, thassfashure, I wish I could get a real prompt in 95 but all it is is a reboot into a nonwindowed DOS window. 95 gives you a DOSlike thing as a legacy addition, it aint DOS tho... --- * SLMR 2.0 * so cold its hot so fine everything fire and me still dead Date: Monday, July 7, 1997 8:31am Forum: Computing From: Sysop Msg#: 738722 To: Dti Re: Real DOS in 95? (Reply to #738719, Copy by Calvin, Reply to #738267, Rep*) (1 reply) DT> Real DOS in 95? Well, you started a thread that is indeed DT>appropriate to the /Fantasy sig, thassfashure, I wish I could get a DT>real prompt in 95 but all it is is a reboot into a nonwindowed DOS DT>window. 95 gives you a DOSlike thing as a legacy addition, it aint DOS DT>tho... There is a dirty dos secret that they don't mention. You can get a real dos prompt by booting from a floppy disk. Date: Monday, July 7, 1997 9:10am Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 738725 To: Dti Re: Real DOS in 95? (Reply to #738719, Copy by Calvin, Reply to #738267, Rep*) (1 reply) D >DR>I discovered even with Doze 95, I can still get out and get a dos D >DR>prompt. there's the Dos In A Window (which blows) and the REAL dos, D >DR>which I'm typing in right now :) D > D > Real DOS in 95? Well, you started a thread that is indeed D >appropriate to the /Fantasy sig, thassfashure, I wish I could get a D >real prompt in 95 but all it is is a reboot into a nonwindowed DOS D >window. 95 gives you a DOSlike thing as a legacy addition, it aint DOS D >tho... Its pretty close. What are you trying to do that the DOS window won't do? --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Saturday, July 12, 1997 8:11am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 738893 To: ** ALL ** Re: Frustration text (Copy by Calvin) (1 reply) I think we can all sympatheize with this guy. Story from the net: Washington computer user shoots PC in frustration Copyright ) 1997 Nando.net Copyright ) 1997 The Associated Press ISSAQUAH, Wash. (July 11, 1997 8:45 p.m. EDT) -- A man was coaxed out of his home by police after he pulled a gun and shot his personal computer, apparently in frustration. "We don't know if it wouldn't boot up or what," Sgt. Keith Moon said Thursday. The computer, in a home office on the second floor of the townhouse, had four bullet holes in the hard drive and one in the monitor. One bullet struck a filing cabinet, while another made it through a wall and into a neighboring unit. No one was hurt. Police evacuated the complex, contacted the 43-year-old man by telephone and got him to come out. He was taken to a hospital for a mental evaluation. Date: Saturday, July 12, 1997 11:02am Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 738897 To: Vida Re: Frustration text (Reply to #738893, Copy by Calvin) V >The computer, in a home office on the second floor of the townhouse, V >had four bullet holes in the hard drive and one in the monitor. V >One bullet struck a filing cabinet, while another made it through a wa V >and into a neighboring unit. No one was hurt. V >Police evacuated the complex, contacted the 43-year-old man by V >telephone and got him to come out. He was taken to a hospital for a V >mental evaluation. Mental evaluation? How about giving him a medal. Better still, give him his gun back and give him the address of Microsoft Headquarters. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Wednesday, July 16, 1997 2:48am Forum: Computing From: Dti Msg#: 739106 To: Sysop Re: Real DOS in 95? (Reply to #738722, Reply to #738719, Copy by Calvin, Rep*) (2 replies) S>There is a dirty dos secret that they don't mention. You can get a real S>dos prompt by booting from a floppy disk. Really? I been trying to suss out how to boot into real Doze too. The non95 Doze, the kind my scanner works under. How the fuck do I make a boot disk under an OS that does not have a real command prompt? --- * SLMR 2.0 * To reply press Ctrl/Alt/Del and wait for a bit Date: Wednesday, July 16, 1997 2:48am Forum: Computing From: Dti Msg#: 739107 To: Editor Re: Real DOS in 95? (Reply to #738725, Reply to #738719, Copy by Calvin, Rep*) (1 reply) ED>D > Real DOS in 95? Well, you started a thread that is indeed ED>D >appropriate to the /Fantasy sig, thassfashure, I wish I could get a ED>D >real prompt in 95 but all it is is a reboot into a nonwindowed DOS ED>D >window. 95 gives you a DOSlike thing as a legacy addition, it aint DOS ED>D >tho... ED>Its pretty close. What are you trying to do that the DOS window won't do? Well, I'd like to be able to do the usual simple DOS maintenance routines that require a simple clean boot to accomplish, and it would be nice if I could run vanilla DOS/Doze 3, in order to use certain hardware that is not supported by 95. --- * SLMR 2.0 * THEY DONT WANT MY MONEY Date: Wednesday, July 16, 1997 9:24am Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 739134 To: Dti Re: Real DOS in 95? (Reply to #739107, Reply to #738725, Reply to #738719, C*) D >ED>D > Real DOS in 95? Well, you started a thread that is indeed D >ED>D >appropriate to the /Fantasy sig, thassfashure, I wish I could ge D >ED>D >real prompt in 95 but all it is is a reboot into a nonwindowed D D >ED>D >window. 95 gives you a DOSlike thing as a legacy addition, it ai D >ED>D >tho... D > D >ED>Its pretty close. What are you trying to do that the DOS window won D > D > Well, I'd like to be able to do the usual simple DOS maintenance D >routines that require a simple clean boot to accomplish, and it would D >nice if I could run vanilla DOS/Doze 3, in order to use certain hardwa D >that is not supported by 95. That's true. Supposedly everything is supported plug 'n play by W95. And if you believe that .... --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Wednesday, July 16, 1997 9:47am Forum: Computing From: Sysop Msg#: 739140 To: Dti Re: Real DOS in 95? (Reply to #739106, Reply to #738722, Reply to #738719, C*) DT>S>There is a dirty dos secret that they don't mention. You can get a real DT>S>dos prompt by booting from a floppy disk. DT> Really? DT> I been trying to suss out how to boot into real Doze too. The non95 DT>Doze, the kind my scanner works under. How the fuck do I make a boot DT>disk under an OS that does not have a real command prompt? DT>--- DT> * SLMR 2.0 * To reply press Ctrl/Alt/Del and wait for a bit Well, here's how to make a boot disk. Bring up a fake dos prompt from doze95. Put a blank disk in the floppy drive, then type: format a: /s You'll probably have to manually add stuff to config.sys, since doze95 takes most of that stuff out and loads it internally so it won't remember to add it back to the boot files. When you boot from the floppy, you get real dos, and nothing but dos. However, win95 install did to windows, what quack did to rpm...got rid of it. It's probably saved as a compressed file, but there's no way to run the old doze anymore. I can get your scanner to work under doze95 though. If you'd like to bring your box over, I'll get the scanner working under 95. Date: Wednesday, July 16, 1997 1:55pm Forum: Computing From: Steve C Msg#: 739168 To: Dti Re: Real DOS in 95? (Reply to #739106, Reply to #738722, Reply to #738719, C*) DT>S>There is a dirty dos secret that they don't mention. You can get a real DT>S>dos prompt by booting from a floppy disk. DT> Really? DT> I been trying to suss out how to boot into real Doze too. The non95 DT>Doze, the kind my scanner works under. How the fuck do I make a boot DT>disk under an OS that does not have a real command prompt? The boot disk is a little tricky. I think that you would have to create it on a computer running real Dos (6.22 or earlier) then put your dos files in a directory on your c:\ drive. then create a config.sys and autoexec.bat file on your boot disk that loads whatever devices you will need ( you will also need to include a path statement which notes the directory that has your old dos in it.) The one question I don't have an answer for is can you sys your hard drive with DOS 6.22 and still run win95 afterwards ? --- þ OLX 2.1 TD þ She's dead Jim. Still warm though. Flip you for her? Date: Wednesday, July 16, 1997 9:24am Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 739175 To: ** ALL ** Re: Jive (Copy by Calvin, Reply to #738949, Reply to #738898, Rep*) (1 reply) -------------< COMMENTS BY Calvin >-------------- TO: Sysop ----------< END OF COMMENTS BY Calvin >---------- S >ED>Cute... sort of like that shrink program... was it "Eli". All it di S >ED>analyze your responses and turn it into a question. Got really spoo S >ED>awhile. S > S >Eliza I think, yes? I have the BASIC code for it on my old TI! If you have the source, you should post it. One of the more brilliant efforts I have ever seen. Along those lines is another program called "jive". Really idiot, stupid program, but you put English in one side, and "jive" comes out the other. Really hysterical. There is another one that turns English into "valley speech", but its not nearly as good. Here is the above paragraph after passing it through "jive": If ya' gots' de source, ya' should post it. One uh de mo'e brilliant effo'ts ah' gots' eva' seen. 'S coo', bro. Along dose lines be anoda' honky code called " JIBE". Really idiot, stdownid honky code, but ya' put English in one side, and " JIBE" comes out da damn oder. Ah be baaad... Really hysterical. Dere be anoda' one dat turns English into "valley speech", but its not nearly as baaaad. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Thursday, July 17, 1997 11:49am Forum: Computing From: Steve C Msg#: 739242 To: Editor Re: Jive (Reply to #739175, Copy by Calvin, Reply to #738949, Rep*) ED>If you have the source, you should post it. One of the more brilliant ED>efforts I have ever seen. Along those lines is another program called ED>"jive". Really idiot, stupid program, but you put English in one side, and ED>"jive" comes out the other. Really hysterical. There is another one that ED>turns English into "valley speech", but its not nearly as good. ED>Here is the above paragraph after passing it through "jive": ED>If ya' gots' de source, ya' should post it. One uh de mo'e brilliant ED>effo'ts ah' gots' eva' seen. 'S coo', bro. Along dose lines be anoda' ED>honky code called " JIBE". Really idiot, stdownid honky code, but ya' put ED>English in one side, and " JIBE" comes out da damn oder. Ah be baaad... ED>Really hysterical. Dere be anoda' one dat turns English into "valley ED>speech", but its not nearly as baaaad. Thats a cute program. I have it under the name Eubonics.zip. When unzipped it contains Jive.exe and a sample text file for you to run through it. If anybody wants it, I can upload it here. --- þ OLX 2.1 TD þ Go: Give me liberties, or give me death. Date: Sunday, July 20, 1997 1:24pm Forum: Computing From: Anthony Msg#: 739418 To: ** ALL ** Re: Newsgroup Decoder Does anyone know how can I decode a message using Internet Explorer or Netscape 4.0? Is it possible to decode messages with these browsers or do I have to buy a third party browser? Anthony Date: Monday, July 21, 1997 10:00pm Forum: Computing From: Dna Msg#: 739519 To: ** ALL ** Re: ELISA (Copy by Calvin, Reply to #738898, Reply to #738882, Rep*) -------------< COMMENTS BY Calvin >-------------- TO: Editor ----------< END OF COMMENTS BY Calvin >---------- ELISA was a simple parser. There were several later Markov-chain type programs, the most notable was automatic Zen. Heck, entire USENET newsgroups are composed entirely of Write-Only Memory. Date: Thursday, July 31, 1997 7:17am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 739775 To: ** ALL ** Re: Technology taken over? (Copy by Calvin) Found this on one of my e mail lists. > Some Ways to Know That Technology Has Taken Over > Your Life > _____________________________________________________________________ > > > 1.Your stationery is more cluttered than Warren Beatty's address > book. The letterhead lists a fax number, e-mail addresses > for two on-line services, and your Internet address, which spreads > across the breadth of the letterhead and continues to > the back. In essence, you have conceded that the first page of any letter you write *is* letterhead. > 2.You have never sat through an entire movie without having at least one device on your body beep or buzz. > 3.You need to fill out a form that must be typewritten, but you can't > because there isn't one typewriter in your house-only > computers with laser printers. > 4.You think of the gadgets in your office as "friends," but you > forget to send your father a birthday card. > 5.You disdain people who use low baud rates. > 6.When you go into a computer store, you eavesdrop on a salesperson > talking with customers-and you butt in to correct > him and spend the next twenty minutes answering the customers' > questions, while the salesperson stands by silently, > nodding his head. > 7.You use the phrase "digital compression" in a conversation without > thinking how strange your mouth feels when you say > it. > 8.You constantly find yourself in groups of people to whom you say > the phrase "digital compression." Everyone > understands what you mean, and you are not surprised or disappointed that you don't have to explain it. > 9.You know Bill Gates' e-mail address, but you have to look up your own social security number. > 10.You stop saying "phone number" and replace it with "voice number", > since we all know the majority of phone lines in any > house are plugged into contraptions that talk to other contraptions. > 11.You sign Christmas cards by putting :-) next to your signature. > 12.Off the top of your head, you can think of nineteen keystroke > symbols that are far more clever than :-) > 13.You back up your data every day. > 14.Your wife asks you to pick up some minipads for her at the store > and you return with a rest for your mouse. > 15.You think jokes about being unable to program a VCR are stupid. > 16.On vacation, you are reading a computer manual and turning the > pages faster than everyone else who is reading John > Grisham novels. > 17.The thought that a CD could refer to finance or music rarely enters > your mind. > 18.You are able to argue persuasively the Ross Perot's phrase > "electronic town hall" makes more sense than the term > "information superhighway," but you don't because, after all, the man still uses hand-drawn pie charts. > 19.You go to computer trade shows and map out your path of the exhibit > hall in advance. But you cannot give someone > directions to your house without looking up the street names. > 20.You would rather get more dots per inch than miles per gallon. > 21.You become upset when a person calls you on the phone to sell you > something, but you think it's okay for a computer to > call and demand that you start pushing buttons on your telephone to > receive more information about the product it is > selling. > 22.You know without a doubt that disks come in five-and-a- quarter-and > three-and-a-half-inch sizes. > 23.You own a set of itty-bitty screw-drivers and you actually know > where they are. > 24.While contemporaries swap stories about their recent hernia > surgeries, you compare mouse-induced index-finger strain > with a nine-year-old. > 25.You are so knowledgeable about technology that you feel secure > enough to say "I don't know" when someone asks you > a technology question instead of feeling compelled to make something up. > 26.You rotate your screen savers more frequently than your automobile > tires. > 27.You have a functioning home copier machine, but every toaster you > own turns bread into charcoal. > 28.You have ended friendships because of irreconcilably different > opinions about which is better-the track ball or the > track *pad*. > 29.You understand all the jokes in this message. If so, my friend, > technology has taken over your life. We suggest, for your > own good, that you go lie under a tree and write a haiku. And don't use a laptop. > 30.You e-mail this message to your friends over the net. You'd never > get around to showing it to them in person or reading it > to them on the phone. In fact, you have probably never met most of these people face-to-face. Date: Friday, February 6, 1998 1:51pm Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 744616 To: ** ALL ** Re: quoting (Fw by Sysop, Reply to #744542, Reply to #744536, Reply *) -------------< COMMENTS BY Sysop >-------------- To: Editor ----------< END OF COMMENTS BY Sysop >---------- ED>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>You couldn't run AOL with a 2400 modem, could you? ED>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>Actually I was on AOL for about 2-3 years until they dropp ED>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>for my Apple IIGS and its 2400 modem. ED>SF>VI>SF>VI>Golly! I thought you needed at least a 14.4 modem to surf th ED>SF>VI>SF>When I and my antique were allowed on AOL, Web was not an option ED>SF> ED>SF>VI>Then that's why they discontinued giving tech support to the 2400 m ED>SF>VI>on AOL. I think once you link up with the internet that you need a ED>SF>VI>least a 14.4 to connect up with the internet. ED>SF>AOL never explained, they just sent me a notice that as of this and th ED>SF>date they would no longer support Apple IIGS participation on their ED>SF>system. ED>I don't think its a very complicated issue. The AOL interface program is ED>one mother complicated one. They don't even support it under Windows NT, ED>which, according to Mr. Gates, is identical to the Windows 95. (There ED>actually are a number of differences in the interface.) Compared to the ED>differences between NT and 95, your Apple is in another galaxy. ED>--- ED> þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy In a galaxy far far away and a long time ago....to paraphrase Star Wars. Date: Friday, February 6, 1998 10:55pm Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 744617 To: ** ALL ** Re: quoting (Fw by Sysop, Reply to #744543, Reply to #744541, Reply *) -------------< COMMENTS BY Sysop >-------------- To: Steve Flur ----------< END OF COMMENTS BY Sysop >---------- SF>ED>Notebooks are pretty specialized. Unless you have a really, really, SF>ED>pressing space problem, or travel a great deal, don't buy a noteboo SF>ED>expensive, too hard to repair, etc. Portability is their only virtu SF> SF>Space is less than non-existant and was my prime motivator in SF>considering a notebook, however, I have taken a deep breathe and I am SF>looking what if anything I can do about the space to make my life easi SF>and get a small desktop. First, there are computer desks that make the computer all but disappear. They start with the basic Staples variety and go on up to full priced furniture. If that doesn't fit your budget, the key is to get the computer out of the way on the floor. If you don't need the diskette drive, or the CDROM (if you have one), you can really bury it away. Just get a switched power bar to control the power. Next, get a keyboard drawer that hides the keyboard when its not in use. Hang it under the desk. You don't have to be too handy with tools for that. Not much you can do about the printer or the monitor. If you are doing pretty much straight text based ASCII, a 10" monitor is pretty small and not too expensive. The more Windows stuff you do the better the monitor you need. I broke down and got a 17" monitor because I have so many window open that I was going blind with the little one. Finally, if you are going to get a printer, look at one of the new ones with a small footprint. I got an HP6L. It sits on top of the computer and leaves enough space over to stack papers. The thing about a notepad is that when its NOT in use, its pretty small, but when you ARE using it, it won't be much smaller than the whole shebang I just described. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Saturday, February 7, 1998 6:15am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 744618 To: ** ALL ** Re: quoting (Fw by Sysop, Reply to #744536, Reply to #744527, Reply *) -------------< COMMENTS BY Sysop >-------------- To: Steve Flur ----------< END OF COMMENTS BY Sysop >---------- SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>You couldn't run AOL with a 2400 modem, could you? SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>Actually I was on AOL for about 2-3 years until they dropped sup SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>for my Apple IIGS and its 2400 modem. SF>VI>SF>VI>Golly! I thought you needed at least a 14.4 modem to surf the net. SF>VI>SF>When I and my antique were allowed on AOL, Web was not an option. SF>VI>Then that's why they discontinued giving tech support to the 2400 modem SF>VI>on AOL. I think once you link up with the internet that you need at SF>VI>least a 14.4 to connect up with the internet. SF>AOL never explained, they just sent me a notice that as of this and this SF>date they would no longer support Apple IIGS participation on their SF>system. And once they sent the notice you could no longer access AOL on your puter?? I personally use ATT Worldnet for my internet provider. Originally Worldnet provided Eudora Light for as a e mail program and then they discontinued tech support for Eudora Light. However, I can still use Eudora Light to access my Worldnet e mail. Date: Saturday, February 7, 1998 7:19am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 744619 To: ** ALL ** Re: quoting (Fw by Sysop, Reply to #744549, Reply to #744543, Reply *) -------------< COMMENTS BY Sysop >-------------- To: Editor ----------< END OF COMMENTS BY Sysop >---------- ED>SF>Space is less than non-existant and was my prime motivator in ED>SF>considering a notebook, however, I have taken a deep breathe and I am ED>SF>looking what if anything I can do about the space to make my life easi ED>SF>and get a small desktop. ED>First, there are computer desks that make the computer all but disappear. ED>They start with the basic Staples variety and go on up to full priced ED>furniture. ED>If that doesn't fit your budget, the key is to get the computer out of the ED>way on the floor. If you don't need the diskette drive, or the CDROM (if ED>you have one), you can really bury it away. Just get a switched power bar ED>to control the power. ED>Next, get a keyboard drawer that hides the keyboard when its not in use. ED>Hang it under the desk. You don't have to be too handy with tools for that. ED>Not much you can do about the printer or the monitor. If you are doing ED>pretty much straight text based ASCII, a 10" monitor is pretty small and ED>not too expensive. The more Windows stuff you do the better the monitor you ED>need. I broke down and got a 17" monitor because I have so many window open ED>that I was going blind with the little one. ED>Finally, if you are going to get a printer, look at one of the new ones ED>with a small footprint. I got an HP6L. It sits on top of the computer and ED>leaves enough space over to stack papers. ED>The thing about a notepad is that when its NOT in use, its pretty small, ED>but when you ARE using it, it won't be much smaller than the whole shebang ED>I just described. I bought one of those computer desks you talked about in Staples. It really doesn't take up much space. I have my CPU, monitor and speakers on the top. It has a little sliding drawer with my keyboard and mouse. And underneath, there are two shelves. The top one has my printer, the bottom one I keep empty but can be used to store paper. (I can't use it to store paper because I have a cat. The cat would have a party if I stored paper on that shelf!) All in all, it takes up maybe three feet of space. Date: Saturday, February 7, 1998 1:20pm Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 744620 To: ** ALL ** Re: quoting (Fw by Sysop, Reply to #744557, Reply to #744549, Reply *) -------------< COMMENTS BY Sysop >-------------- To: Vida ----------< END OF COMMENTS BY Sysop >---------- V >ED>The thing about a notepad is that when its NOT in use, its pretty s V >ED>but when you ARE using it, it won't be much smaller than the whole V >ED>I just described. V > V > V >I bought one of those computer desks you talked about in Staples. It V >really doesn't take up much space. V > V >I have my CPU, monitor and speakers on the top. It has a little V >sliding drawer with my keyboard and mouse. And underneath, there are V >two shelves. The top one has my printer, the bottom one I keep empty V >but can be used to store paper. (I can't use it to store paper becaus V >I have a cat. The cat would have a party if I stored paper on that V >shelf!) All in all, it takes up maybe three feet of space. If the keyboard drawer is well mounted, steady and not wobbly, it is a better position for your wrist than on top of the table. Most keyboards, when on desktops, are a few inches too high and are an invitation for wrist and tendon problems. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Saturday, February 7, 1998 1:20pm Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 744621 To: ** ALL ** Re: quoting (Fw by Sysop, Reply to #744552, Reply to #744536, Reply *) -------------< COMMENTS BY Sysop >-------------- To: Vida ----------< END OF COMMENTS BY Sysop >---------- V >SF>VI>Then that's why they discontinued giving tech support to the 240 V >SF>VI>on AOL. I think once you link up with the internet that you nee V >SF>VI>least a 14.4 to connect up with the internet. V >SF>AOL never explained, they just sent me a notice that as of this and V >SF>date they would no longer support Apple IIGS participation on their V >SF>system. V > V >And once they sent the notice you could no longer access AOL on your V >puter?? V >I personally use ATT Worldnet for my internet provider. Originally V >Worldnet provided Eudora Light for as a e mail program and then they V >discontinued tech support for Eudora Light. However, I can still use V >Eudora Light to access my Worldnet e mail. Remember that AOL is not an ISP (Internet Service Provider) per se. Many people use it that way, but its not. Its one of those "online communities". Its main upside is that is a no brainer to set up and use. They are pretty suckey as an ISP because they censor like mad. On the other hand, I'd be kind of surprised if anyone had a TCP/IP stack for an Apple II. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Saturday, February 7, 1998 6:25pm Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 744622 To: ** ALL ** Re: quoting (Fw by Sysop, Reply to #744563, Reply to #744552, Reply *) -------------< COMMENTS BY Sysop >-------------- To: Editor ----------< END OF COMMENTS BY Sysop >---------- ED>V >SF>VI>Then that's why they discontinued giving tech support to the 240 ED>V >SF>VI>on AOL. I think once you link up with the internet that you nee ED>V >SF>VI>least a 14.4 to connect up with the internet. ED>V >SF>AOL never explained, they just sent me a notice that as of this and ED>V >SF>date they would no longer support Apple IIGS participation on their ED>V >SF>system. ED>V > ED>V >And once they sent the notice you could no longer access AOL on your ED>V >puter?? ED>V >I personally use ATT Worldnet for my internet provider. Originally ED>V >Worldnet provided Eudora Light for as a e mail program and then they ED>V >discontinued tech support for Eudora Light. However, I can still use ED>V >Eudora Light to access my Worldnet e mail. ED>Remember that AOL is not an ISP (Internet Service Provider) per se. Many ED>people use it that way, but its not. Its one of those "online communities". ED>Its main upside is that is a no brainer to set up and use. They are pretty ED>suckey as an ISP because they censor like mad. ED>On the other hand, I'd be kind of surprised if anyone had a TCP/IP stack ED>for an Apple II. I had AOL for a while as an "add on service" to my ATT Worldnet account. The worse part of it as far as I was concerned was all the g.d ads. You couldn't sign in or sign off without getting bombarded with ads for this or that. And frequently you had to go through four or five screens of ads before you could do anything! Date: Monday, February 9, 1998 11:20am Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 744623 To: ** ALL ** Re: quoting (Fw by Sysop, Reply to #744549, Reply to #744543, Reply *) -------------< COMMENTS BY Sysop >-------------- To: Editor ----------< END OF COMMENTS BY Sysop >---------- Thanks for all the useful advice and I will keep in mind while shopping. Date: Monday, February 9, 1998 11:22am Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 744624 To: ** ALL ** Re: quoting (Fw by Sysop, Reply to #744552, Reply to #744536, Reply *) -------------< COMMENTS BY Sysop >-------------- To: Vida ----------< END OF COMMENTS BY Sysop >---------- VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>You couldn't run AOL with a 2400 modem, could you? VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>Actually I was on AOL for about 2-3 years until they dropped VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>for my Apple IIGS and its 2400 modem. VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>Golly! I thought you needed at least a 14.4 modem to surf the n VI>SF>VI>SF>When I and my antique were allowed on AOL, Web was not an option. VI>SF>VI>Then that's why they discontinued giving tech support to the 2400 mode VI>SF>VI>on AOL. I think once you link up with the internet that you need at VI>SF>VI>least a 14.4 to connect up with the internet. VI>SF>AOL never explained, they just sent me a notice that as of this and this VI>SF>date they would no longer support Apple IIGS participation on their VI>SF>system. VI>And once they sent the notice you could no longer access AOL on your VI>puter?? VI>I personally use ATT Worldnet for my internet provider. Originally VI>Worldnet provided Eudora Light for as a e mail program and then they VI>discontinued tech support for Eudora Light. However, I can still use VI>Eudora Light to access my Worldnet e mail. One off, that was it. With my present system I had few options then and even fewer now. Date: Monday, February 9, 1998 6:41pm Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 744625 To: ** ALL ** Re: quoting (Fw by Sysop, Reply to #744592, Reply to #744552, Reply *) (1 reply) -------------< COMMENTS BY Sysop >-------------- To: Steve Flur ----------< END OF COMMENTS BY Sysop >---------- SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>You couldn't run AOL with a 2400 modem, could you? SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>Actually I was on AOL for about 2-3 years until they dropp SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>for my Apple IIGS and its 2400 modem. SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>Golly! I thought you needed at least a 14.4 modem to surf th SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>When I and my antique were allowed on AOL, Web was not an option SF>VI>SF>VI>Then that's why they discontinued giving tech support to the 2400 m SF>VI>SF>VI>on AOL. I think once you link up with the internet that you need a SF>VI>SF>VI>least a 14.4 to connect up with the internet. SF>VI>SF>AOL never explained, they just sent me a notice that as of this and th SF>VI>SF>date they would no longer support Apple IIGS participation on their SF>VI>SF>system. SF>VI>And once they sent the notice you could no longer access AOL on your SF>VI>puter?? SF>VI>I personally use ATT Worldnet for my internet provider. Originally SF>VI>Worldnet provided Eudora Light for as a e mail program and then they SF>VI>discontinued tech support for Eudora Light. However, I can still use SF>VI>Eudora Light to access my Worldnet e mail. SF>One off, that was it. With my present system I had few options then and SF>even fewer now. And it will only get worse my friend, not better. I am expecting that once Windows 98 comes rolling up that I will have to either upgrade or replace my system pretty quickly. Date: Tuesday, February 10, 1998 10:30am Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 744630 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #744625, Fw by Sysop, Reply to #744592, Reply *) (1 reply) VI>-------------< COMMENTS BY Sysop >-------------- VI>To: Steve Flur VI>----------< END OF COMMENTS BY Sysop >---------- VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>You couldn't run AOL with a 2400 modem, could you? VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>Actually I was on AOL for about 2-3 years until they dr VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>for my Apple IIGS and its 2400 modem. VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>Golly! I thought you needed at least a 14.4 modem to surf VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>When I and my antique were allowed on AOL, Web was not an opt VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>Then that's why they discontinued giving tech support to the 240 VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>on AOL. I think once you link up with the internet that you nee VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>least a 14.4 to connect up with the internet. VI>SF>VI>SF>AOL never explained, they just sent me a notice that as of this and VI>SF>VI>SF>date they would no longer support Apple IIGS participation on their VI>SF>VI>SF>system. VI>SF>VI>And once they sent the notice you could no longer access AOL on your VI>SF>VI>puter?? VI>SF>VI>I personally use ATT Worldnet for my internet provider. Originally VI>SF>VI>Worldnet provided Eudora Light for as a e mail program and then they VI>SF>VI>discontinued tech support for Eudora Light. However, I can still use VI>SF>VI>Eudora Light to access my Worldnet e mail. VI>SF>One off, that was it. With my present system I had few options then and VI>SF>even fewer now. VI>And it will only get worse my friend, not better. I am expecting that VI>once Windows 98 comes rolling up that I will have to either upgrade or VI>replace my system pretty quickly. It's this issue that also keeps delaying my making a major purchase. Date: Wednesday, February 11, 1998 5:54am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 744635 To: Steve Flur Re: quoting (Reply to #744630, Reply to #744625, Fw by Sysop, Reply *) (1 reply) SF>VI>-------------< COMMENTS BY Sysop >-------------- SF>VI>To: Steve Flur SF>VI>----------< END OF COMMENTS BY Sysop >---------- SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>You couldn't run AOL with a 2400 modem, could you SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>Actually I was on AOL for about 2-3 years until they SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>for my Apple IIGS and its 2400 modem. SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>Golly! I thought you needed at least a 14.4 modem to s SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>When I and my antique were allowed on AOL, Web was not an SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>Then that's why they discontinued giving tech support to the SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>on AOL. I think once you link up with the internet that you SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>least a 14.4 to connect up with the internet. SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>AOL never explained, they just sent me a notice that as of this SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>date they would no longer support Apple IIGS participation on th SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>system. SF>VI>SF>VI>And once they sent the notice you could no longer access AOL on you SF>VI>SF>VI>puter?? SF>VI>SF>VI>I personally use ATT Worldnet for my internet provider. Originally SF>VI>SF>VI>Worldnet provided Eudora Light for as a e mail program and then the SF>VI>SF>VI>discontinued tech support for Eudora Light. However, I can still u SF>VI>SF>VI>Eudora Light to access my Worldnet e mail. SF>VI>SF>One off, that was it. With my present system I had few options then an SF>VI>SF>even fewer now. SF>VI>And it will only get worse my friend, not better. I am expecting that SF>VI>once Windows 98 comes rolling up that I will have to either upgrade or SF>VI>replace my system pretty quickly. SF>It's this issue that also keeps delaying my making a major purchase. Yes, but sooner or later the machine which you are running is no longer functional. I think, btw, you have reached that point my friend. Date: Thursday, February 12, 1998 8:53am Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 744655 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #744651, Reply to #744636, Reply to #744635, R*) (1 reply) VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>-------------< COMMENTS BY Sysop >-------------- VI>SF>VI>Yes, but sooner or later the machine which you are running is no longe VI>SF>VI>functional. I think, btw, you have reached that point my friend. VI>SF>For basic wordprocessing and patient therapy it still funtions, however, VI>SF>it is in all the other areas that its antiquity shows itself clearly. VI>I know for me if I couldn't get internet access that would motivate me VI>quickly to update my system. Since I have not had such access yet, I still do not feel the lose, however I am aware what I am missing. Date: Friday, February 13, 1998 3:16am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 744669 To: Steve Flur Re: quoting (Reply to #744655, Reply to #744651, Reply to #744636, R*) (1 reply) SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>-------------< COMMENTS BY Sysop >-------------- SF>VI>SF>VI>Yes, but sooner or later the machine which you are running is no lo SF>VI>SF>VI>functional. I think, btw, you have reached that point my friend. SF>VI>SF>For basic wordprocessing and patient therapy it still funtions, howeve SF>VI>SF>it is in all the other areas that its antiquity shows itself clearly. SF>VI>I know for me if I couldn't get internet access that would motivate me SF>VI>quickly to update my system. SF>Since I have not had such access yet, I still do not feel the lose, SF>however I am aware what I am missing. For me, the whole reason I have a puter is to access the net. Without the net and AH the puter in my apartment would just be a big paper weight. :) Date: Wednesday, February 11, 1998 12:37pm Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 744672 To: ** ALL ** Re: PC Prices (Fw by Sysop) -------------< COMMENTS BY Sysop >-------------- To: Steve Flur ----------< END OF COMMENTS BY Sysop >---------- Speaking of PC Prices... from the current issue of Information Week. (Bear in mind these are RETAIL prices.) --------------------------- The price of entry-level business desktops continues to spiral downward. IBM and Micron Electronics last week cut the price of entry-level PCs to around $900. Compaq reduced desktop prices as much as 18% and now has five machines priced at less than $1,000. "There's no going back," says James Poyner, an analyst at Oppenheimer & Co. in New York. "That price point is here to stay." Vendors say the latest round of price cuts is due in part to the lower cost of components, including Intel processors. Also, manufacturers are moving to less-expensive build-to-order distribution models. "We're passing those savings along much faster because of our more efficient distribution model," says Steve Shelton, an IBM product manager. Thus far, the sub-$1,000 machines are based on Intel's Pentium MMX processors, which Intel plans to phase out this year in favor of the Pentium II. For $889, IBM's system comes with a 166-MHz processor, 16 Mbytes of RAM, and a 2.5-Gbyte hard disk, but no monitor. Prices of Pentium II systems are also falling rapidly; last week, IBM introduced a similarly configured system with a 233-MHz Pentium II for $1,249. Until recently, many vendors produced sub-$1,000 models only for consumers. But that's changing. Analysts say business desktops may fall as low as $800 in coming months (InformationWeek, Sept. 8, p. 14).NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center is testing low-priced PCs with a beta version of Microsoft's Windows Terminal Server software, which lets desktops act as Windows terminals-essentially Windows-centric network com-puters-accessing applications on NT servers. "There are many situations where we could deploy these sub-$1,000 systems in fixed-use applications [with Terminal Server] and use the machines for standalone applications as well," says Briscoe Stephens, an IS manager at the Huntsville, Ala., center. "I haven't seen any reason to be interested in NCs." ----------------------- Along with this article was a price quote for an IBM PC 300PL with 166Mhz Pentium MMX, 16 MB of RAM and 2.5gb hard drive for $899 + monitor. I think this is the model with a built in sound card as well. This is nuts. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Wednesday, February 11, 1998 1:40pm Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 744673 To: ** ALL ** Re: PC Prices (Fw by Sysop, Reply to #744641) (1 reply) -------------< COMMENTS BY Sysop >-------------- To: Editor ----------< END OF COMMENTS BY Sysop >---------- In your opinion, do you project that this downward movement in prices will continue a while? Date: Thursday, February 12, 1998 10:00am Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 744674 To: ** ALL ** Re: PC Prices (Fw by Sysop, Reply to #744642, Reply to #744641) -------------< COMMENTS BY Sysop >-------------- To: Steve Flur ----------< END OF COMMENTS BY Sysop >---------- SF>In your opinion, do you project that this downward movement in prices SF>will continue a while? Its just starting. What will happen is that retailers are trying to dump their inventories fast. By the summer, they are going to be stocking up on the new systems. By late March, maybe early April, I would expect prices to bottom only because inventories are going to start winding down and the old demand curve will kick in. So, IMO, there are going to be some real bargains out there in another few weeks, but remember, by the end of the summer you'll be using "obsolete equipment". Whether that bothers you, is up to you, but I would strongly buying high end stuff now or you will have a dog on your hands within two years. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Thursday, February 12, 1998 11:45am Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 744675 To: ** ALL ** Re: PC Prices (Fw by Sysop, Reply to #744658, Reply to #744642, Reply *) -------------< COMMENTS BY Sysop >-------------- To: Steve Flur ----------< END OF COMMENTS BY Sysop >---------- ED>SF>In your opinion, do you project that this downward movement in prices ED>SF>will continue a while? ED>Its just starting. What will happen is that retailers are trying to dump ED>their inventories fast. By the summer, they are going to be stocking up on ED>the new systems. By late March, maybe early April, I would expect prices to ED>bottom only because inventories are going to start winding down and the old ED>demand curve will kick in. ED>So, IMO, there are going to be some real bargains out there in another few ED>weeks, but remember, by the end of the summer you'll be using "obsolete ED>equipment". Whether that bothers you, is up to you, but I would strongly ED>buying high end stuff now or you will have a dog on your hands within two ED>years. ED>--- ED> þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Considering what I have now, anything is an upgrade. But seriously, I will watch prices but not necessarily buy the bargain basement version, since as you say why invest in obsolete technology. Date: Friday, February 13, 1998 3:04am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 744676 To: ** ALL ** Re: PC Prices (Fw by Sysop, Reply to #744662, Reply to #744658, Reply *) -------------< COMMENTS BY Sysop >-------------- To: Editor ----------< END OF COMMENTS BY Sysop >---------- SF>ED>SF>In your opinion, do you project that this downward movement in prices SF>ED>SF>will continue a while? SF>ED>Its just starting. What will happen is that retailers are trying to dump SF>ED>their inventories fast. By the summer, they are going to be stocking up o SF>ED>the new systems. By late March, maybe early April, I would expect prices SF>ED>bottom only because inventories are going to start winding down and the o SF>ED>demand curve will kick in. SF>ED>So, IMO, there are going to be some real bargains out there in another fe SF>ED>weeks, but remember, by the end of the summer you'll be using "obsolete SF>ED>equipment". Whether that bothers you, is up to you, but I would strongly SF>ED>buying high end stuff now or you will have a dog on your hands within two SF>ED>years. SF>ED>--- SF>ED> þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy SF>Considering what I have now, anything is an upgrade. But seriously, I SF>will watch prices but not necessarily buy the bargain basement version, SF>since as you say why invest in obsolete technology. As Editor pointed out anything you buy now will be considered "obsolete" because Windows 98 will be rolling out fairly soon. But you can certainly buy something now and upgrade to Win 98. Date: Wednesday, February 11, 1998 9:31am Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 744677 To: ** ALL ** Re: quoting (Fw by Sysop, Reply to #744635, Reply to #744630, Reply *) -------------< COMMENTS BY Sysop >-------------- To: Vida ----------< END OF COMMENTS BY Sysop >---------- VI>SF>VI>-------------< COMMENTS BY Sysop >-------------- VI>SF>VI>To: Steve Flur VI>SF>VI>----------< END OF COMMENTS BY Sysop >---------- VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>You couldn't run AOL with a 2400 modem, could VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>Actually I was on AOL for about 2-3 years until t VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>for my Apple IIGS and its 2400 modem. VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>Golly! I thought you needed at least a 14.4 modem t VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>When I and my antique were allowed on AOL, Web was not VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>Then that's why they discontinued giving tech support to t VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>on AOL. I think once you link up with the internet that y VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>least a 14.4 to connect up with the internet. VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>AOL never explained, they just sent me a notice that as of th VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>date they would no longer support Apple IIGS participation on VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>system. VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>And once they sent the notice you could no longer access AOL on VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>puter?? VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>I personally use ATT Worldnet for my internet provider. Origina VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>Worldnet provided Eudora Light for as a e mail program and then VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>discontinued tech support for Eudora Light. However, I can stil VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>Eudora Light to access my Worldnet e mail. VI>SF>VI>SF>One off, that was it. With my present system I had few options then VI>SF>VI>SF>even fewer now. VI>SF>VI>And it will only get worse my friend, not better. I am expecting that VI>SF>VI>once Windows 98 comes rolling up that I will have to either upgrade or VI>SF>VI>replace my system pretty quickly. VI>SF>It's this issue that also keeps delaying my making a major purchase. VI>Yes, but sooner or later the machine which you are running is no longer VI>functional. I think, btw, you have reached that point my friend. For basic wordprocessing and patient therapy it still funtions, however, it is in all the other areas that its antiquity shows itself clearly. Date: Thursday, February 12, 1998 6:58am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 744678 To: ** ALL ** Re: quoting (Fw by Sysop, Reply to #744636, Reply to #744635, Reply *) -------------< COMMENTS BY Sysop >-------------- To: Steve Flur ----------< END OF COMMENTS BY Sysop >---------- SF>VI>SF>VI>-------------< COMMENTS BY Sysop >-------------- SF>VI>Yes, but sooner or later the machine which you are running is no longer SF>VI>functional. I think, btw, you have reached that point my friend. SF>For basic wordprocessing and patient therapy it still funtions, however, SF>it is in all the other areas that its antiquity shows itself clearly. I know for me if I couldn't get internet access that would motivate me quickly to update my system. Date: Friday, February 13, 1998 9:34am Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 744681 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #744669, Reply to #744655, Reply to #744651, R*) (1 reply) VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>-------------< COMMENTS BY Sysop >-------------- VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>Yes, but sooner or later the machine which you are running is no VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>functional. I think, btw, you have reached that point my friend VI>SF>VI>SF>For basic wordprocessing and patient therapy it still funtions, how VI>SF>VI>SF>it is in all the other areas that its antiquity shows itself clearl VI>SF>VI>I know for me if I couldn't get internet access that would motivate me VI>SF>VI>quickly to update my system. VI>SF>Since I have not had such access yet, I still do not feel the lose, VI>SF>however I am aware what I am missing. VI>For me, the whole reason I have a puter is to access the net. Without VI>the net and AH the puter in my apartment would just be a big paper VI>weight. :) My problem is moving the paper to make way for a computer. Date: Saturday, February 14, 1998 1:08am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 744688 To: Steve Flur Re: quoting (Reply to #744681, Reply to #744669, Reply to #744655, R*) (1 reply) SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>-------------< COMMENTS BY Sysop >-------------- SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>Yes, but sooner or later the machine which you are running is SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>functional. I think, btw, you have reached that point my fri SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>For basic wordprocessing and patient therapy it still funtions, SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>it is in all the other areas that its antiquity shows itself cle SF>VI>SF>VI>I know for me if I couldn't get internet access that would motivate SF>VI>SF>VI>quickly to update my system. SF>VI>SF>Since I have not had such access yet, I still do not feel the lose, SF>VI>SF>however I am aware what I am missing. SF>VI>For me, the whole reason I have a puter is to access the net. Without SF>VI>the net and AH the puter in my apartment would just be a big paper SF>VI>weight. :) SF>My problem is moving the paper to make way for a computer. With that, when there's a will, there's a way. :) Date: Tuesday, February 17, 1998 11:30am Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 744712 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #744688, Reply to #744681, Reply to #744669, R*) (1 reply) VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>-------------< COMMENTS BY Sysop >-------------- VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>Yes, but sooner or later the machine which you are running VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>functional. I think, btw, you have reached that point my VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>For basic wordprocessing and patient therapy it still funtion VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>it is in all the other areas that its antiquity shows itself VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>I know for me if I couldn't get internet access that would motiv VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>quickly to update my system. VI>SF>VI>SF>Since I have not had such access yet, I still do not feel the lose, VI>SF>VI>SF>however I am aware what I am missing. VI>SF>VI>For me, the whole reason I have a puter is to access the net. Without VI>SF>VI>the net and AH the puter in my apartment would just be a big paper VI>SF>VI>weight. :) VI>SF>My problem is moving the paper to make way for a computer. VI>With that, when there's a will, there's a way. :) Well........maybe... Date: Tuesday, February 17, 1998 6:56pm Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 744719 To: Steve Flur Re: quoting (Reply to #744712, Reply to #744688, Reply to #744681, R*) (1 reply) SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>I know for me if I couldn't get internet access that would mo SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>quickly to update my system. SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>Since I have not had such access yet, I still do not feel the lo SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>however I am aware what I am missing. SF>VI>SF>VI>For me, the whole reason I have a puter is to access the net. With SF>VI>SF>VI>the net and AH the puter in my apartment would just be a big paper SF>VI>SF>VI>weight. :) SF>VI>SF>My problem is moving the paper to make way for a computer. SF>VI>With that, when there's a will, there's a way. :) SF>Well........maybe... One way or the other, if you want a new computer bad enough you will figure out a way to do it. :) Date: Wednesday, February 18, 1998 8:57am Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 744726 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #744719, Reply to #744712, Reply to #744688, R*) (2 replies) VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>I know for me if I couldn't get internet access that would VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>quickly to update my system. VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>Since I have not had such access yet, I still do not feel the VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>however I am aware what I am missing. VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>For me, the whole reason I have a puter is to access the net. W VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>the net and AH the puter in my apartment would just be a big pap VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>weight. :) VI>SF>VI>SF>My problem is moving the paper to make way for a computer. VI>SF>VI>With that, when there's a will, there's a way. :) VI>SF>Well........maybe... VI>One way or the other, if you want a new computer bad enough you will VI>figure out a way to do it. :) Can I borrow your credit card? Date: Wednesday, February 18, 1998 1:20pm Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 744732 To: Steve Flur Re: quoting (Reply to #744726, Reply to #744719, Reply to #744712, R*) (3 replies) SF> SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>I know for me if I couldn't get internet access t SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>quickly to update my system. SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>Since I have not had such access yet, I still do not SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>however I am aware what I am missing. SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>For me, the whole reason I have a puter is to access th SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>the net and AH the puter in my apartment would just be SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>weight. :) SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>My problem is moving the paper to make way for a computer. SF>VI>SF>VI>With that, when there's a will, there's a way. :) SF>VI>SF>Well........maybe... SF> SF>VI>One way or the other, if you want a new computer bad enough you wil SF>VI>figure out a way to do it. :) SF>Can I borrow your credit card? SF> I made the comment that computer prices were going to crash. After seeing last weekends newspaper, I'd say implode might be a better word. The ads were for HP or IBM PCs, 166Mhz, 16mb RAM and 2.1gb dis for around $650-$700 plus monitor. This is going to be wild. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Wednesday, February 18, 1998 2:51pm Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 744733 To: Editor Re: quoting (Reply to #744732, Reply to #744726, Reply to #744719, R*) ED>SF> ED>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>I know for me if I couldn't get internet access t ED>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>quickly to update my system. ED>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>Since I have not had such access yet, I still do not ED>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>however I am aware what I am missing. ED>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>For me, the whole reason I have a puter is to access th ED>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>the net and AH the puter in my apartment would just be ED>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>weight. :) ED>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>My problem is moving the paper to make way for a computer. ED>SF>VI>SF>VI>With that, when there's a will, there's a way. :) ED>SF>VI>SF>Well........maybe... ED>SF> ED>SF>VI>One way or the other, if you want a new computer bad enough you wil ED>SF>VI>figure out a way to do it. :) ED>SF>Can I borrow your credit card? ED>SF> ED>I made the comment that computer prices were going to crash. After seeing ED>last weekends newspaper, I'd say implode might be a better word. The ads ED>were for HP or IBM PCs, 166Mhz, 16mb RAM and 2.1gb dis for around $650-$700 ED>plus monitor. ED>This is going to be wild. ED>--- ED> þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy My observation as well. I will rely on expert advice, such as yours, to know when bottom is hit. Date: Saturday, February 21, 1998 9:06am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 744775 To: Steve Flur Re: quoting (Reply to #744726, Reply to #744719, Reply to #744712, R*) (1 reply) SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>I know for me if I couldn't get internet access that wo SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>quickly to update my system. SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>Since I have not had such access yet, I still do not feel SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>however I am aware what I am missing. SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>For me, the whole reason I have a puter is to access the net. SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>the net and AH the puter in my apartment would just be a big SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>weight. :) SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>My problem is moving the paper to make way for a computer. SF>VI>SF>VI>With that, when there's a will, there's a way. :) SF>VI>SF>Well........maybe... SF>VI>One way or the other, if you want a new computer bad enough you will SF>VI>figure out a way to do it. :) SF>Can I borrow your credit card? THAT'S a whole other issue. So far, all you have said is that you don't have the space for a new computer. I haven't heard you say that you don't have the money to get one! Besides I need to keep my credit card clear so I can buy myself a new one next year! :) Date: Saturday, February 21, 1998 9:07am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 744776 To: Editor Re: quoting (Reply to #744732, Reply to #744726, Reply to #744719, R*) (2 replies) ED>I made the comment that computer prices were going to crash. After seeing ED>last weekends newspaper, I'd say implode might be a better word. The ads ED>were for HP or IBM PCs, 166Mhz, 16mb RAM and 2.1gb dis for around $650-$700 ED>plus monitor. ED>This is going to be wild. Yeah! I know! I keep on reading the ads and thinking that maybe I should rethink my strategy of buying AFTER Win 98 comes out. The prices or so incredibly low that I am thinking that maybe I should just buy now and upgrade to Win 98 later. Date: Saturday, February 21, 1998 5:49pm Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 744788 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #744776, Reply to #744732, Reply to #744726, R*) (2 replies) V > V >ED>I made the comment that computer prices were going to crash. After V >ED>last weekends newspaper, I'd say implode might be a better word. Th V >ED>were for HP or IBM PCs, 166Mhz, 16mb RAM and 2.1gb dis for around $ V >ED>plus monitor. V > V >ED>This is going to be wild. V > V >Yeah! I know! I keep on reading the ads and thinking that maybe I V >should rethink my strategy of buying AFTER Win 98 comes out. The V >prices or so incredibly low that I am thinking that maybe I should jus V >buy now and upgrade to Win 98 later. Just remember that all of the ads are for equipment that will be obsolete soon, like in 6-8 weeks. Nothing below 200Mhz is being manufactured anymore, and the 200Mhz stuff is going to be gone by mid April. The "bargains" that I have seen have been for 133 Mhz boxes. I use a 100Mhz box at work, and its OK, but just barely OK. One thing you can be sure of is that W98 will take more disk and more CPU cycles. Unless you have very limited requirements, I think buying a 133Mhz box is a mistake. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Sunday, February 22, 1998 9:04am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 744797 To: Editor Re: quoting (Reply to #744788, Reply to #744776, Reply to #744732, R*) ED>V > ED>V >ED>I made the comment that computer prices were going to crash. After ED>V >ED>last weekends newspaper, I'd say implode might be a better word. Th ED>V >ED>were for HP or IBM PCs, 166Mhz, 16mb RAM and 2.1gb dis for around $ ED>V >ED>plus monitor. ED>V > ED>V >ED>This is going to be wild. ED>V > ED>V >Yeah! I know! I keep on reading the ads and thinking that maybe I ED>V >should rethink my strategy of buying AFTER Win 98 comes out. The ED>V >prices or so incredibly low that I am thinking that maybe I should jus ED>V >buy now and upgrade to Win 98 later. ED>Just remember that all of the ads are for equipment that will be obsolete ED>soon, like in 6-8 weeks. Nothing below 200Mhz is being manufactured ED>anymore, and the 200Mhz stuff is going to be gone by mid April. The ED>"bargains" that I have seen have been for 133 Mhz boxes. I use a 100Mhz box ED>at work, and its OK, but just barely OK. One thing you can be sure of is ED>that W98 will take more disk and more CPU cycles. Unless you have very ED>limited requirements, I think buying a 133Mhz box is a mistake. I have seen ads for good deals on 200mhz machines and above. But in all likelihood I will be too lazy and too cheap to buy now! :) Date: Sunday, February 22, 1998 9:49pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 744799 To: Editor Re: quoting (Reply to #744732, Reply to #744726, Reply to #744719, R*) (1 reply) ED>SF> ED>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>I know for me if I couldn't get internet access t ED>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>quickly to update my system. ED>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>Since I have not had such access yet, I still do not ED>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>however I am aware what I am missing. ED>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>For me, the whole reason I have a puter is to access th ED>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>the net and AH the puter in my apartment would just be ED>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>weight. :) ED>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>My problem is moving the paper to make way for a computer. ED>SF>VI>SF>VI>With that, when there's a will, there's a way. :) ED>SF>VI>SF>Well........maybe... ED>SF> ED>SF>VI>One way or the other, if you want a new computer bad enough you wil ED>SF>VI>figure out a way to do it. :) ED>SF>Can I borrow your credit card? ED>SF> ED>I made the comment that computer prices were going to crash. After seeing ED>last weekends newspaper, I'd say implode might be a better word. The ads ED>were for HP or IBM PCs, 166Mhz, 16mb RAM and 2.1gb dis for around $650-$700 ED>plus monitor. ED>This is going to be wild. ED>--- ED> þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Well.. 166mhz is pretty much out dated (sure- it's still A good machine) but hey- A 386, is still A good machine ;-) Date: Sunday, February 22, 1998 9:52pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 744800 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #744776, Reply to #744732, Reply to #744726, R*) (1 reply) VI>ED>I made the comment that computer prices were going to crash. After seeing VI>ED>last weekends newspaper, I'd say implode might be a better word. The ads VI>ED>were for HP or IBM PCs, 166Mhz, 16mb RAM and 2.1gb dis for around $650-$7 VI>ED>plus monitor. VI>ED>This is going to be wild. VI>Yeah! I know! I keep on reading the ads and thinking that maybe I VI>should rethink my strategy of buying AFTER Win 98 comes out. The VI>prices or so incredibly low that I am thinking that maybe I should just VI>buy now and upgrade to Win 98 later. Or just build ;-) (thats always the best way to go) you can get A pentium board for like $90 - then add another $100 or so for the CPU ;-) (for $200.00 you can have A nice 200mhz pentium) ;-) Date: Sunday, February 22, 1998 9:55pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 744801 To: Editor Re: quoting (Reply to #744788, Reply to #744776, Reply to #744732, R*) (1 reply) ED>V > ED>V >ED>I made the comment that computer prices were going to crash. After ED>V >ED>last weekends newspaper, I'd say implode might be a better word. Th ED>V >ED>were for HP or IBM PCs, 166Mhz, 16mb RAM and 2.1gb dis for around $ ED>V >ED>plus monitor. ED>V > ED>V >ED>This is going to be wild. ED>V > ED>V >Yeah! I know! I keep on reading the ads and thinking that maybe I ED>V >should rethink my strategy of buying AFTER Win 98 comes out. The ED>V >prices or so incredibly low that I am thinking that maybe I should jus ED>V >buy now and upgrade to Win 98 later. ED>Just remember that all of the ads are for equipment that will be obsolete ED>soon, like in 6-8 weeks. Nothing below 200Mhz is being manufactured ED>anymore, and the 200Mhz stuff is going to be gone by mid April. The ED>"bargains" that I have seen have been for 133 Mhz boxes. I use a 100Mhz box ED>at work, and its OK, but just barely OK. One thing you can be sure of is ED>that W98 will take more disk and more CPU cycles. Unless you have very ED>limited requirements, I think buying a 133Mhz box is a mistake. ED>--- ED> þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Yup! so true! (anything less than 200mhz is out dated- like ya said! even 200mhz is pretty old stuff) as for win98?- I really don't see the NEED (I mean if your running everything you need now? why upgrade ta win98)-- then agian.. the way MicroSoft does stuff :-( - I'm sure they will make it seem like the world will stop if you don't have '98.. Date: Monday, February 23, 1998 6:17am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 744804 To: Amiga Re: quoting (Reply to #744800, Reply to #744776, Reply to #744732, R*) (1 reply) AM>VI>ED>I made the comment that computer prices were going to crash. After see AM>VI>ED>last weekends newspaper, I'd say implode might be a better word. The a AM>VI>ED>were for HP or IBM PCs, 166Mhz, 16mb RAM and 2.1gb dis for around $650 AM>VI>ED>plus monitor. AM>VI>ED>This is going to be wild. AM>VI>Yeah! I know! I keep on reading the ads and thinking that maybe I AM>VI>should rethink my strategy of buying AFTER Win 98 comes out. The AM>VI>prices or so incredibly low that I am thinking that maybe I should just AM>VI>buy now and upgrade to Win 98 later. AM>Or just build ;-) (thats always the best way to go) AM>you can get A pentium board for like $90 - then add another $100 or so AM>for the CPU ;-) (for $200.00 you can have A nice 200mhz pentium) ;-) If you know what you are doing building is the better way! I, my friend, don't know what I am doing in that realm. :) Date: Monday, February 23, 1998 10:11am Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 744808 To: Amiga Re: quoting (Reply to #744799, Reply to #744732, Reply to #744726, R*) A >ED>I made the comment that computer prices were going to crash. After A >ED>last weekends newspaper, I'd say implode might be a better word. Th A >ED>were for HP or IBM PCs, 166Mhz, 16mb RAM and 2.1gb dis for around $ A >ED>plus monitor. A > A >ED>This is going to be wild. A > A >ED>--- A >ED> þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy A > A > A >Well.. 166mhz is pretty much out dated (sure- it's still A good machin A >but hey- A 386, is still A good machine ;-) And so is my 286.... hey, without it the screen door wouldn't stay open in a stiff breeze. (G) Seriously though it depends on what you are doing. I use a 100Mhz at work and it is sufficient, although just barely. When I'm doing word processing, or communications, it more than holds its own. But when I do a big compile, its is noticably slower than my 200 Mhz at home. My benchmark is usually the word processing program. I use Wordperfect 8, and it does OK. If I go into another large PC development cycle, this will have to change. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Monday, February 23, 1998 10:11am Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 744809 To: Amiga Re: quoting (Reply to #744801, Reply to #744788, Reply to #744776, R*) A >Yup! so true! (anything less than 200mhz is out dated- like ya said! A >even 200mhz is pretty old stuff) A > A >as for win98?- I really don't see the NEED (I mean if your running A >everything you need now? why upgrade ta win98)-- then agian.. the way A >MicroSoft does stuff :-( - I'm sure they will make it seem like the A >world will stop if you don't have '98.. Well... it won't be as bad as the Win3.1 to Win95 trauma. Even cruddy 32 bit code is so superior to 16 bit code it hurts to watch. But the 95-98 migration will follow a different path. Microsoft, probably by pushing IE4 (or 5 by then), will offer features that are just so.... nifty!... that developers won't be able to resist them, and this will start to differentiate Win 98 apps from 95 apps, and then nature will take its course. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Monday, February 23, 1998 10:11am Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 744810 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #744804, Reply to #744800, Reply to #744776, R*) (1 reply) V >AM>you can get A pentium board for like $90 - then add another $100 or V >AM>for the CPU ;-) (for $200.00 you can have A nice 200mhz pentium) ;- V > V >If you know what you are doing building is the better way! I, my V >friend, don't know what I am doing in that realm. :) Not knowing what they were doing hasn't stopped people before. (G) Seriously, it would look like you are saving a bundle, but what you are really doing is trading your time for the manufacturer's time. Vida, this stuff is just SOOOOOO sophisticated today. Getting all this stuff to work and play well together is an absolute art form. Do you appreciate how fast 200 Mhz is? The CPU completes a function every 5 nanoseconds. (I'm not sure how many clock cycles it takes to actually execute an instruction.) It takes a hydrogen bomb 100 nanoseconds to explode. That means that A 200 Mhz chip... an OBSOLETE chip, can perform 20 clock cycles while an thermonuclear bomb is going off! --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Monday, February 23, 1998 2:45pm Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 744815 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #744775, Reply to #744726, Reply to #744719, R*) (1 reply) VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>I know for me if I couldn't get internet access that VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>quickly to update my system. VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>Since I have not had such access yet, I still do not fe VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>however I am aware what I am missing. VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>For me, the whole reason I have a puter is to access the n VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>the net and AH the puter in my apartment would just be a b VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>weight. :) VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>My problem is moving the paper to make way for a computer. VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>With that, when there's a will, there's a way. :) VI>SF>VI>SF>Well........maybe... VI>SF>VI>One way or the other, if you want a new computer bad enough you will VI>SF>VI>figure out a way to do it. :) VI>SF>Can I borrow your credit card? VI>THAT'S a whole other issue. So far, all you have said is that you VI>don't have the space for a new computer. I haven't heard you say that VI>you don't have the money to get one! VI>Besides I need to keep my credit card clear so I can buy myself a new VI>one next year! :) It does not hurt to ask while you are sounding sympathetic. Date: Monday, February 23, 1998 10:22pm Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 744820 To: Editor Re: quoting (Reply to #744810, Reply to #744804, Reply to #744800, R*) (2 replies) ED>V >AM>you can get A pentium board for like $90 - then add another $100 or ED>V >AM>for the CPU ;-) (for $200.00 you can have A nice 200mhz pentium) ;- ED>V > ED>V >If you know what you are doing building is the better way! I, my ED>V >friend, don't know what I am doing in that realm. :) ED>Not knowing what they were doing hasn't stopped people before. (G) ED>Seriously, it would look like you are saving a bundle, but what you are ED>really doing is trading your time for the manufacturer's time. Vida, this ED>stuff is just SOOOOOO sophisticated today. Getting all this stuff to work ED>and play well together is an absolute art form. Do you appreciate how fast ED>200 Mhz is? The CPU completes a function every 5 nanoseconds. (I'm not sure ED>how many clock cycles it takes to actually execute an instruction.) It ED>takes a hydrogen bomb 100 nanoseconds to explode. That means that A 200 Mhz ED>chip... an OBSOLETE chip, can perform 20 clock cycles while an ED>thermonuclear bomb is going off! The fact that it IS so sophisicated is what scares the hell out of me. I would NEVER take on this kind of upgrade myself. My choice is simply to buy a new puter or to pay someone to upgrade the one I have. Date: Monday, February 23, 1998 10:23pm Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 744821 To: Steve Flur Re: quoting (Reply to #744815, Reply to #744775, Reply to #744726, R*) (1 reply) SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>I know for me if I couldn't get internet access t SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>quickly to update my system. SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>Since I have not had such access yet, I still do not SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>however I am aware what I am missing. SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>For me, the whole reason I have a puter is to access th SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>the net and AH the puter in my apartment would just be SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>weight. :) SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>My problem is moving the paper to make way for a computer. SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>With that, when there's a will, there's a way. :) SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>Well........maybe... SF>VI>SF>VI>One way or the other, if you want a new computer bad enough you wil SF>VI>SF>VI>figure out a way to do it. :) SF>VI>SF>Can I borrow your credit card? SF>VI>THAT'S a whole other issue. So far, all you have said is that you SF>VI>don't have the space for a new computer. I haven't heard you say that SF>VI>you don't have the money to get one! SF>VI>Besides I need to keep my credit card clear so I can buy myself a new SF>VI>one next year! :) SF>It does not hurt to ask while you are sounding sympathetic. Sympathethic yes. Crazy no. :) Date: Tuesday, February 24, 1998 12:14am Forum: Computing From: Conundrum Msg#: 744824 To: Steve Flur Re: PC Prices (Reply to #744673, Fw by Sysop, Reply to #744641) (1 reply) Given that said downward motion has existed for as long as computers, I suspect it will continue to exist as long as PCs still have improvements within sight. Date: Tuesday, February 24, 1998 9:03am Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 744835 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #744821, Reply to #744815, Reply to #744775, R*) (1 reply) VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>I know for me if I couldn't get internet acces VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>quickly to update my system. VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>Since I have not had such access yet, I still do VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>however I am aware what I am missing. VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>For me, the whole reason I have a puter is to access VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>the net and AH the puter in my apartment would just VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>weight. :) VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>My problem is moving the paper to make way for a comput VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>With that, when there's a will, there's a way. :) VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>Well........maybe... VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>One way or the other, if you want a new computer bad enough you VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>figure out a way to do it. :) VI>SF>VI>SF>Can I borrow your credit card? VI>SF>VI>THAT'S a whole other issue. So far, all you have said is that you VI>SF>VI>don't have the space for a new computer. I haven't heard you say that VI>SF>VI>you don't have the money to get one! VI>SF>VI>Besides I need to keep my credit card clear so I can buy myself a new VI>SF>VI>one next year! :) VI>SF>It does not hurt to ask while you are sounding sympathetic. VI>Sympathethic yes. Crazy no. :) Oh well......can't help but try. Date: Tuesday, February 24, 1998 9:05am Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 744836 To: Conundrum Re: PC Prices (Reply to #744824, Reply to #744673, Fw by Sysop, Reply *) (2 replies) CO>Given that said downward motion has existed for as long as computers, I CO>suspect it will continue to exist as long as PCs still have improvements CO>within sight. So....when does one buy? Date: Tuesday, February 24, 1998 5:07pm Forum: Computing From: Steve C Msg#: 744851 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #744820, Reply to #744810, Reply to #744804, R*) (2 replies) VI>The fact that it IS so sophisicated is what scares the hell out of me. VI>I would NEVER take on this kind of upgrade myself. My choice is simply VI>to buy a new puter or to pay someone to upgrade the one I have. I felt the same way untill I tried it. Unlike the old radios and other electronic gadgets, most of the insides of a computer are on expansion cards.You disconnect the power supply, ground yourself on the metal of the computer case and remove/replace the part of your choice. I am a total klutz, yet I built a 486/33, added a cd rom and sound card and then upgraded the cpu to 66mhz, and it seemed simple. * OLX 2.1 TD * Cut my pizza in six slices, please; I can't eat eight. Date: Tuesday, February 24, 1998 5:07pm Forum: Computing From: Steve C Msg#: 744852 To: Steve Flur Re: PC Prices (Reply to #744836, Reply to #744824, Reply to #744673, F*) (1 reply) SF>O>Given that said downward motion has existed for as long as computers, I SF>CO>suspect it will continue to exist as long as PCs still have improvements SF>CO>within sight. SF>So....when does one buy? When one sees a system that will handle what they need with power to spare, and is also within their spending range. * OLX 2.1 TD * I'm selfish, I wear comdoms with the ribs on the inside. Date: Tuesday, February 24, 1998 7:48pm Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 744858 To: Steve Flur Re: quoting (Reply to #744835, Reply to #744821, Reply to #744815, R*) (1 reply) SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>I know for me if I couldn't get internet ac SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>quickly to update my system. SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>Since I have not had such access yet, I still SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>however I am aware what I am missing. SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>For me, the whole reason I have a puter is to acc SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>the net and AH the puter in my apartment would ju SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>weight. :) SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>My problem is moving the paper to make way for a com SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>With that, when there's a will, there's a way. :) SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>Well........maybe... SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>One way or the other, if you want a new computer bad enough y SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>figure out a way to do it. :) SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>Can I borrow your credit card? SF>VI>SF>VI>THAT'S a whole other issue. So far, all you have said is that you SF>VI>SF>VI>don't have the space for a new computer. I haven't heard you say t SF>VI>SF>VI>you don't have the money to get one! SF>VI>SF>VI>Besides I need to keep my credit card clear so I can buy myself a n SF>VI>SF>VI>one next year! :) SF>VI>SF>It does not hurt to ask while you are sounding sympathetic. SF>VI>Sympathethic yes. Crazy no. :) SF>Oh well......can't help but try. Suppose not. :) Date: Tuesday, February 24, 1998 7:50pm Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 744859 To: Steve C Re: quoting (Reply to #744851, Reply to #744820, Reply to #744810, R*) (4 replies) SC>VI>The fact that it IS so sophisicated is what scares the hell out of me. SC>VI>I would NEVER take on this kind of upgrade myself. My choice is simply SC>VI>to buy a new puter or to pay someone to upgrade the one I have. SC>I felt the same way untill I tried it. SC>Unlike the old radios and other electronic gadgets, most of the insides SC>of a computer are on expansion cards.You disconnect the power supply, SC>ground yourself on the metal of the computer case and remove/replace the SC>part of your choice. SC>I am a total klutz, yet I built a 486/33, added a cd rom and sound card SC>and then upgraded the cpu to 66mhz, and it seemed simple. Simple to you, maybe. The few times I have seen the insides of my puter I have been totally scared and 100% intimidated. I definitely wouldn't try to rebuild my puter! Date: Tuesday, February 24, 1998 8:43pm Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 744865 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #744859, Reply to #744851, Reply to #744820, R*) (1 reply) V >SC>I am a total klutz, yet I built a 486/33, added a cd rom and sound V >SC>and then upgraded the cpu to 66mhz, and it seemed simple. V > V >Simple to you, maybe. The few times I have seen the insides of my V >puter I have been totally scared and 100% intimidated. I definitely V >wouldn't try to rebuild my puter! Personally I wouldn't do it either, but you really have to understand how simple it has become. My old IBM PS/2 50Z could be almost totally disassembled without tools! That includes disk drives, diskette drives, and so on. It was weird. I think you finally needed a screwdriver to replace the mother board, but other than that, everything snapped together like a child's raincoat! The current generation is tougher, but its also a zillion times the computer. The big problem is that the SECOND one is always the easiest. You can spend hours trying to figure out how to get them little SIMM suckers into the memory slots, and then once you do they click in so quickly its spooky. But I'm with you. I'll buy one assembled. The software is enough of a challenge. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Wednesday, February 25, 1998 6:10am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 744871 To: Editor Re: quoting (Reply to #744865, Reply to #744859, Reply to #744851, R*) (2 replies) ED>V >SC>I am a total klutz, yet I built a 486/33, added a cd rom and sound ED>V >SC>and then upgraded the cpu to 66mhz, and it seemed simple. ED>V > ED>V >Simple to you, maybe. The few times I have seen the insides of my ED>V >puter I have been totally scared and 100% intimidated. I definitely ED>V >wouldn't try to rebuild my puter! ED>Personally I wouldn't do it either, but you really have to understand how ED>simple it has become. My old IBM PS/2 50Z could be almost totally ED>disassembled without tools! That includes disk drives, diskette drives, and ED>so on. It was weird. I think you finally needed a screwdriver to replace ED>the mother board, but other than that, everything snapped together like a ED>child's raincoat! ED>The current generation is tougher, but its also a zillion times the ED>computer. The big problem is that the SECOND one is always the easiest. You ED>can spend hours trying to figure out how to get them little SIMM suckers ED>into the memory slots, and then once you do they click in so quickly its ED>spooky. ED>But I'm with you. I'll buy one assembled. The software is enough of a ED>challenge. Actually, I have been considering buying a memory chip and paying someone to install it with me. I just don't know if economically it makes sense. With the price of puters where they are, it could end up costing me close to the same amount to upgrade my existing system as to buy a new system! Date: Wednesday, February 25, 1998 8:51am Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 744872 To: Steve C Re: PC Prices (Reply to #744852, Reply to #744836, Reply to #744824, R*) (1 reply) SC>SF>O>Given that said downward motion has existed for as long as computers, I SC>SF>CO>suspect it will continue to exist as long as PCs still have improvemen SC>SF>CO>within sight. SC>SF>So....when does one buy? SC>When one sees a system that will handle what they need with power to SC>spare, and is also within their spending range. SC> * OLX 2.1 TD * I'm selfish, I wear comdoms with the ribs on the inside. Sounds like buying a computer system is as "simple" as getting "married", since one is always worried that there is one better out there. Date: Wednesday, February 25, 1998 8:54am Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 744873 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #744858, Reply to #744835, Reply to #744821, R*) (2 replies) VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>I know for me if I couldn't get internet VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>quickly to update my system. VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>Since I have not had such access yet, I sti VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>however I am aware what I am missing. VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>For me, the whole reason I have a puter is to VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>the net and AH the puter in my apartment would VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>weight. :) VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>My problem is moving the paper to make way for a VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>With that, when there's a will, there's a way. :) VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>Well........maybe... VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>One way or the other, if you want a new computer bad enoug VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>figure out a way to do it. :) VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>Can I borrow your credit card? VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>THAT'S a whole other issue. So far, all you have said is that y VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>don't have the space for a new computer. I haven't heard you sa VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>you don't have the money to get one! VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>Besides I need to keep my credit card clear so I can buy myself VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>one next year! :) VI>SF>VI>SF>It does not hurt to ask while you are sounding sympathetic. VI>SF>VI>Sympathethic yes. Crazy no. :) VI>SF>Oh well......can't help but try. VI>Suppose not. :) I saw some ads this week for 300+htz computers that were under $2,000, so prices are still falling. Date: Wednesday, February 25, 1998 9:53am Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 744877 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #744871, Reply to #744865, Reply to #744859, R*) (2 replies) V >ED>But I'm with you. I'll buy one assembled. The software is enough of V >ED>challenge. V > V >Actually, I have been considering buying a memory chip and paying V >someone to install it with me. I just don't know if economically it V >makes sense. With the price of puters where they are, it could end up V >costing me close to the same amount to upgrade my existing system as t V >buy a new system! You hit that on the head. I used to set $700 as the break point between upgrading and buying. I'd say that $400 is close not. You can keep your monitor, keyboard and modem, and get a 133Mhz box with 16mb of RAM and a 2.1gb disk, probably a CDROM also, FROM IBM for $700. Period. That's with W95 installed and set to go. More memory and installation is bound to run you $100+. Maybe more. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Wednesday, February 25, 1998 12:09pm Forum: Computing From: Nightbird Msg#: 744885 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #744859, Reply to #744851, Reply to #744820, R*) (3 replies) VI>SC>VI>The fact that it IS so sophisicated is what scares the hell out of me. VI>SC>VI>I would NEVER take on this kind of upgrade myself. My choice is simpl VI>SC>VI>to buy a new puter or to pay someone to upgrade the one I have. VI>SC>I felt the same way untill I tried it. VI>SC>Unlike the old radios and other electronic gadgets, most of the insides VI>SC>of a computer are on expansion cards.You disconnect the power supply, VI>SC>ground yourself on the metal of the computer case and remove/replace the VI>SC>part of your choice. VI>SC>I am a total klutz, yet I built a 486/33, added a cd rom and sound card VI>SC>and then upgraded the cpu to 66mhz, and it seemed simple. VI>Simple to you, maybe. The few times I have seen the insides of my VI>puter I have been totally scared and 100% intimidated. I definitely VI>wouldn't try to rebuild my puter! Vida, all Steve C had to do due was take out the first chip(486/33) and replace it with the 486/66 chip, really easy. --- þ OLX 2.1 TD þ Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic Date: Wednesday, February 25, 1998 5:31pm Forum: Computing From: Steve C Msg#: 744887 To: Steve Flur Re: PC Prices (Reply to #744872, Reply to #744852, Reply to #744836, R*) (2 replies) SF>C>SF>O>Given that said downward motion has existed for as long as computers, SF>SC>SF>CO>suspect it will continue to exist as long as PCs still have improve SF>SC>SF>CO>within sight. SF>SC>SF>So....when does one buy? SF>SC>When one sees a system that will handle what they need with power to SF>SC>spare, and is also within their spending range. SF>Sounds like buying a computer system is as "simple" as getting SF>"married", since one is always worried that there is one better out SF>there. Not really. I'm sure its possible that I might meet someone better than my wife, but I'm not going to leave her for someone else. On the other hand, I would not be that attached to my computer. * OLX 2.1 TD * I'll send you a fish, if I can find one Date: Wednesday, February 25, 1998 5:31pm Forum: Computing From: Steve C Msg#: 744888 To: Vida Re: puters (Reply to #744859, Reply to #744851, Reply to #744820, R*) (1 reply) VI>SC>I am a total klutz, yet I built a 486/33, added a cd rom and sound card VI>SC>and then upgraded the cpu to 66mhz, and it seemed simple. VI>Simple to you, maybe. The few times I have seen the insides of my VI>puter I have been totally scared and 100% intimidated. I definitely VI>wouldn't try to rebuild my puter! If thats your feelings toward it, no problem. I am sure there are plenty of things I could do but I'm afraid to try them. :) * OLX 2.1 TD * Hi, my name is Annie Key...don't hit me Date: Wednesday, February 25, 1998 6:42pm Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 744894 To: Steve Flur Re: quoting (Reply to #744873, Reply to #744858, Reply to #744835, R*) (1 reply) SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>I know for me if I couldn't get inter SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>quickly to update my system. SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>Since I have not had such access yet, I SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>however I am aware what I am missing. SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>For me, the whole reason I have a puter is SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>the net and AH the puter in my apartment wo SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>weight. :) SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>My problem is moving the paper to make way for SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>With that, when there's a will, there's a way. : SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>Well........maybe... SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>One way or the other, if you want a new computer bad en SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>figure out a way to do it. :) SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>Can I borrow your credit card? SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>THAT'S a whole other issue. So far, all you have said is tha SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>don't have the space for a new computer. I haven't heard you SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>you don't have the money to get one! SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>Besides I need to keep my credit card clear so I can buy myse SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>one next year! :) SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>It does not hurt to ask while you are sounding sympathetic. SF>VI>SF>VI>Sympathethic yes. Crazy no. :) SF>VI>SF>Oh well......can't help but try. SF>VI>Suppose not. :) SF>I saw some ads this week for 300+htz computers that were under $2,000, SF>so prices are still falling. The question is until when? Date: Wednesday, February 25, 1998 6:43pm Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 744895 To: Editor Re: quoting (Reply to #744877, Reply to #744871, Reply to #744865, R*) (1 reply) ED>V >ED>But I'm with you. I'll buy one assembled. The software is enough of ED>V >ED>challenge. ED>V > ED>V >Actually, I have been considering buying a memory chip and paying ED>V >someone to install it with me. I just don't know if economically it ED>V >makes sense. With the price of puters where they are, it could end up ED>V >costing me close to the same amount to upgrade my existing system as t ED>V >buy a new system! ED>You hit that on the head. I used to set $700 as the break point between ED>upgrading and buying. I'd say that $400 is close not. You can keep your ED>monitor, keyboard and modem, and get a 133Mhz box with 16mb of RAM and a ED>2.1gb disk, probably a CDROM also, FROM IBM for $700. Period. That's with ED>W95 installed and set to go. More memory and installation is bound to run ED>you $100+. Maybe more. That's the way I figure it. Date: Wednesday, February 25, 1998 6:43pm Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 744896 To: Nightbird Re: quoting (Reply to #744885, Reply to #744859, Reply to #744851, R*) (2 replies) NI>VI>SC>VI>The fact that it IS so sophisicated is what scares the hell out of NI>VI>SC>VI>I would NEVER take on this kind of upgrade myself. My choice is si NI>VI>SC>VI>to buy a new puter or to pay someone to upgrade the one I have. NI>VI>SC>I felt the same way untill I tried it. NI>VI>SC>Unlike the old radios and other electronic gadgets, most of the inside NI>VI>SC>of a computer are on expansion cards.You disconnect the power supply, NI>VI>SC>ground yourself on the metal of the computer case and remove/replace t NI>VI>SC>part of your choice. NI>VI>SC>I am a total klutz, yet I built a 486/33, added a cd rom and sound car NI>VI>SC>and then upgraded the cpu to 66mhz, and it seemed simple. NI>VI>Simple to you, maybe. The few times I have seen the insides of my NI>VI>puter I have been totally scared and 100% intimidated. I definitely NI>VI>wouldn't try to rebuild my puter! NI>Vida, all Steve C had to do due was take out the first chip(486/33) and NI>replace it with the 486/66 chip, really easy. NI>--- Not for a super klutz like me! :) Date: Wednesday, February 25, 1998 6:45pm Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 744897 To: Steve C Re: puters (Reply to #744888, Reply to #744859, Reply to #744851, R*) SC>VI>SC>I am a total klutz, yet I built a 486/33, added a cd rom and sound car SC>VI>SC>and then upgraded the cpu to 66mhz, and it seemed simple. SC>VI>Simple to you, maybe. The few times I have seen the insides of my SC>VI>puter I have been totally scared and 100% intimidated. I definitely SC>VI>wouldn't try to rebuild my puter! SC>If thats your feelings toward it, no problem. I am sure there are plenty SC>of things I could do but I'm afraid to try them. :) And if I was without my computer fix for more than 48 hours (except on vacation) I might go through withdrawal. :) Date: Wednesday, February 25, 1998 10:37pm Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 744903 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #744895, Reply to #744877, Reply to #744871, R*) (1 reply) V >ED>You hit that on the head. I used to set $700 as the break point bet V >ED>upgrading and buying. I'd say that $400 is close not. You can keep V >ED>monitor, keyboard and modem, and get a 133Mhz box with 16mb of RAM V >ED>2.1gb disk, probably a CDROM also, FROM IBM for $700. Period. That' V >ED>W95 installed and set to go. More memory and installation is bound V >ED>you $100+. Maybe more. V > V >That's the way I figure it. Unless you have plans for your old system, if you have a decent sized disk drive, what you want to think about is seeing if you can have that drive ADDED to any new box. Assuming compatability of buss types, etc. This will save you a ton of time since all of your old files are right there. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Wednesday, February 25, 1998 10:37pm Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 744905 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #744896, Reply to #744885, Reply to #744859, R*) (3 replies) V >NI>Vida, all Steve C had to do due was take out the first chip(486/33) V >NI>replace it with the 486/66 chip, really easy. V >NI>--- V > V >Not for a super klutz like me! :) Replacing CPU chips can be funny stuff. About the only thing more amazing than the chip itself is the packaging and the sockets. I once had to replace the CPU chip on my PS/2. The new chip came with a "chip puller". I figger if they paid 15 cents for the chip puller they overpaid. What followed was hysterical. The three stooges couldn't have done better. Literally, two of us holding the system down, and then one guy yanking on the chip. It must have looked like 19th century dentists office. Finally, the chip puller snapped, nearly sending one guy out the window. Finally, we invested in a REAL chip puller. Not so easy since no one wants to sell less than a hundred. The thing looked like simple pliers, but it moved in so many directions at once, spreading the socket, digging under the chip, and then pulling up, it still gives me a headache to think about it. With that gadget you could remove the chip, with one hand, in about 10 seconds. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Thursday, February 26, 1998 8:27am Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 744909 To: Steve C Re: PC Prices (Reply to #744887, Reply to #744872, Reply to #744852, R*) SC>SF>C>SF>O>Given that said downward motion has existed for as long as compute SC>SF>SC>SF>CO>suspect it will continue to exist as long as PCs still have impr SC>SF>SC>SF>CO>within sight. SC>SF>SC>SF>So....when does one buy? SC>SF>SC>When one sees a system that will handle what they need with power to SC>SF>SC>spare, and is also within their spending range. SC>SF>Sounds like buying a computer system is as "simple" as getting SC>SF>"married", since one is always worried that there is one better out SC>SF>there. SC>Not really. I'm sure its possible that I might meet someone better than SC>my wife, but I'm not going to leave her for someone else. SC>On the other hand, I would not be that attached to my computer. SC> * OLX 2.1 TD * I'll send you a fish, if I can find one I should hope so! Date: Thursday, February 26, 1998 8:28am Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 744910 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #744894, Reply to #744873, Reply to #744858, R*) (1 reply) VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>I know for me if I couldn't get in VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>quickly to update my system. VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>Since I have not had such access yet, VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>however I am aware what I am missing. VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>For me, the whole reason I have a puter VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>the net and AH the puter in my apartment VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>weight. :) VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>My problem is moving the paper to make way VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>With that, when there's a will, there's a way. VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>Well........maybe... VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>One way or the other, if you want a new computer bad VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>figure out a way to do it. :) VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>Can I borrow your credit card? VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>THAT'S a whole other issue. So far, all you have said is VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>don't have the space for a new computer. I haven't heard VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>you don't have the money to get one! VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>Besides I need to keep my credit card clear so I can buy m VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>one next year! :) VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>It does not hurt to ask while you are sounding sympathetic. VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>Sympathethic yes. Crazy no. :) VI>SF>VI>SF>Oh well......can't help but try. VI>SF>VI>Suppose not. :) VI>SF>I saw some ads this week for 300+htz computers that were under $2,000, VI>SF>so prices are still falling. VI>The question is until when? My question all along, which remains an obstacle in my committing to a new system. Date: Friday, February 27, 1998 11:11am Forum: Computing From: Nightbird Msg#: 744932 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #744896, Reply to #744885, Reply to #744859, R*) VI>NI>VI>SC>VI>The fact that it IS so sophisicated is what scares the hell out VI>NI>VI>SC>VI>I would NEVER take on this kind of upgrade myself. My choice is VI>NI>VI>SC>VI>to buy a new puter or to pay someone to upgrade the one I have. VI>NI>VI>SC>I felt the same way untill I tried it. VI>NI>VI>SC>Unlike the old radios and other electronic gadgets, most of the ins VI>NI>VI>SC>of a computer are on expansion cards.You disconnect the power suppl VI>NI>VI>SC>ground yourself on the metal of the computer case and remove/replac VI>NI>VI>SC>part of your choice. VI>NI>VI>SC>I am a total klutz, yet I built a 486/33, added a cd rom and sound VI>NI>VI>SC>and then upgraded the cpu to 66mhz, and it seemed simple. VI>NI>VI>Simple to you, maybe. The few times I have seen the insides of my VI>NI>VI>puter I have been totally scared and 100% intimidated. I definitely VI>NI>VI>wouldn't try to rebuild my puter! VI>NI>Vida, all Steve C had to do due was take out the first chip(486/33) and VI>NI>replace it with the 486/66 chip, really easy. VI>NI>--- VI>Not for a super klutz like me! :) I'll keep my mouth shut!!! --- þ OLX 2.1 TD þ Press "+" to see another tagline. Date: Friday, February 27, 1998 11:11am Forum: Computing From: Nightbird Msg#: 744934 To: Steve C Re: PC Prices (Reply to #744887, Reply to #744872, Reply to #744852, R*) SC>SF>C>SF>O>Given that said downward motion has existed for as long as compute SC>SF>SC>SF>CO>suspect it will continue to exist as long as PCs still have impr SC>SF>SC>SF>CO>within sight. SC>SF>SC>SF>So....when does one buy? SC>SF>SC>When one sees a system that will handle what they need with power to SC>SF>SC>spare, and is also within their spending range. SC>SF>Sounds like buying a computer system is as "simple" as getting SC>SF>"married", since one is always worried that there is one better out SC>SF>there. SC>Not really. I'm sure its possible that I might meet someone better than SC>my wife, but I'm not going to leave her for someone else. SC>On the other hand, I would not be that attached to my computer. That's always good to know!! --- þ OLX 2.1 TD þ All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here. Date: Friday, February 27, 1998 3:46pm Forum: Computing From: Steve C Msg#: 744936 To: Nightbird Re: quoting (Reply to #744885, Reply to #744859, Reply to #744851, R*) NI>Vida, all Steve C had to do due was take out the first chip(486/33) and NI>replace it with the 486/66 chip, really easy. Your forgetting having to locate jumpers on a motherboard with no documentation, and figuring how to set them. * OLX 2.1 TD * SENILE.COM found...Out of Memory.... Date: Friday, February 27, 1998 3:46pm Forum: Computing From: Steve C Msg#: 744937 To: Editor Re: quoting (Reply to #744905, Reply to #744896, Reply to #744885, R*) (1 reply) ED>V >NI>Vida, all Steve C had to do due was take out the first chip(486/33) ED>V >NI>replace it with the 486/66 chip, really easy. ED>V >NI>--- ED>V > ED>V >Not for a super klutz like me! :) ED>Replacing CPU chips can be funny stuff. About the only thing more amazing ED>than the chip itself is the packaging and the sockets. I once had to ED>replace the CPU chip on my PS/2. The new chip came with a "chip puller". I ED>figger if they paid 15 cents for the chip puller they overpaid. What ED>followed was hysterical. The three stooges couldn't have done better. ED>Literally, two of us holding the system down, and then one guy yanking on ED>the chip. It must have looked like 19th century dentists office. Finally, ED>the chip puller snapped, nearly sending one guy out the window. ED>Finally, we invested in a REAL chip puller. Not so easy since no one wants ED>to sell less than a hundred. The thing looked like simple pliers, but it ED>moved in so many directions at once, spreading the socket, digging under ED>the chip, and then pulling up, it still gives me a headache to think about ED>it. With that gadget you could remove the chip, with one hand, in about 10 ED>seconds. Luckilly this motherboard had a ZIF socket, so the chip removal/insertion was trhe easiest part of it. * OLX 2.1 TD * Mickey Mouse wears a Politician watch. Date: Friday, February 27, 1998 8:59pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 744940 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #744820, Reply to #744810, Reply to #744804, R*) (1 reply) BI>ED>V >AM>you can get A pentium board for like $90 - then add another $100 or VI>ED>V >AM>for the CPU ;-) (for $200.00 you can have A nice 200mhz pentium) ;- VI>ED>V > VI>ED>V >If you know what you are doing building is the better way! I, my VI>ED>V >friend, don't know what I am doing in that realm. :) VI>ED>Not knowing what they were doing hasn't stopped people before. (G) VI>ED>Seriously, it would look like you are saving a bundle, but what you are VI>ED>really doing is trading your time for the manufacturer's time. Vida, this VI>ED>stuff is just SOOOOOO sophisticated today. Getting all this stuff to work VI>ED>and play well together is an absolute art form. Do you appreciate how fas VI>ED>200 Mhz is? The CPU completes a function every 5 nanoseconds. (I'm not su VI>ED>how many clock cycles it takes to actually execute an instruction.) It VI>ED>takes a hydrogen bomb 100 nanoseconds to explode. That means that A 200 M VI>ED>chip... an OBSOLETE chip, can perform 20 clock cycles while an VI>ED>thermonuclear bomb is going off! VI>The fact that it IS so sophisicated is what scares the hell out of me. VI>I would NEVER take on this kind of upgrade myself. My choice is simply VI>to buy a new puter or to pay someone to upgrade the one I have. It's really not that hard (but I guess if you never even took the case off of your computer before?) things would seem very hard... But really- even the "NEWBIE" computer users cam do simple stuff like upgrading A CPU (just pop out the old boy & pop in A new boy)- then agian ya gotta know which CPU's will work on your board (ie: ya would'nt wanna throw A 233mhz if ya motherboard only does like 100mhz for example. Date: Friday, February 27, 1998 9:01pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 744941 To: Steve C Re: quoting (Reply to #744851, Reply to #744820, Reply to #744810, R*) (1 reply) SC>VI>The fact that it IS so sophisicated is what scares the hell out of me. SC>VI>I would NEVER take on this kind of upgrade myself. My choice is simply SC>VI>to buy a new puter or to pay someone to upgrade the one I have. SC>I felt the same way untill I tried it. SC>Unlike the old radios and other electronic gadgets, most of the insides SC>of a computer are on expansion cards.You disconnect the power supply, SC>ground yourself on the metal of the computer case and remove/replace the SC>part of your choice. SC>I am a total klutz, yet I built a 486/33, added a cd rom and sound card SC>and then upgraded the cpu to 66mhz, and it seemed simple. SC> * OLX 2.1 TD * Cut my pizza in six slices, please; I can't eat eight. Yup, it's just that simple :-) basicly- you start with A motherboard- then add A CPU, then add some RAM/simm's, then add A GFX CARD, then your HARDDRIVE/controllers- and your pretty much set :-) Build is the best way ta go! ;-) Date: Friday, February 27, 1998 9:06pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 744942 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #744859, Reply to #744851, Reply to #744820, R*) (1 reply) VI>SC>VI>The fact that it IS so sophisicated is what scares the hell out of me. VI>SC>VI>I would NEVER take on this kind of upgrade myself. My choice is simpl VI>SC>VI>to buy a new puter or to pay someone to upgrade the one I have. VI>SC>I felt the same way untill I tried it. VI>SC>Unlike the old radios and other electronic gadgets, most of the insides VI>SC>of a computer are on expansion cards.You disconnect the power supply, VI>SC>ground yourself on the metal of the computer case and remove/replace the VI>SC>part of your choice. VI>SC>I am a total klutz, yet I built a 486/33, added a cd rom and sound card VI>SC>and then upgraded the cpu to 66mhz, and it seemed simple. VI>Simple to you, maybe. The few times I have seen the insides of my VI>puter I have been totally scared and 100% intimidated. I definitely VI>wouldn't try to rebuild my puter! I guess it's also the ERA- A computer user comes from (ie: I'm from the Commodore 64 era, we pretty much did our own repairs on the C64..) every other week we would open up the computer or diskdrives ta see what was going on inside ;-) But really- people have ta start going thru their hardware (find out what each part does)-- because there are some many " Computer shops"- that will rip you off!!!!! Why do you think every time something is wrong with your COMPUTER- they say.. well ya gonna have ta bring the hold thing in (hehehe) so they tell you that you need A new motherboard- when it's really only your harddrive that needs ta be fixed Date: Friday, February 27, 1998 9:09pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 744943 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #744871, Reply to #744865, Reply to #744859, R*) (1 reply) BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBl klutz, yet I built a 486/33, added a cd rom and sound VI>ED>V >SC>and then upgraded the cpu to 66mhz, and it seemed simple. VI>ED>V > VI>ED>V >Simple to you, maybe. The few times I have seen the insides of my VI>ED>V >puter I have been totally scared and 100% intimidated. I definitely VI>ED>V >wouldn't try to rebuild my puter! VI>ED>Personally I wouldn't do it either, but you really have to understand how VI>ED>simple it has become. My old IBM PS/2 50Z could be almost totally VI>ED>disassembled without tools! That includes disk drives, diskette drives, a VI>ED>so on. It was weird. I think you finally needed a screwdriver to replace VI>ED>the mother board, but other than that, everything snapped together like a VI>ED>child's raincoat! VI>ED>The current generation is tougher, but its also a zillion times the VI>ED>computer. The big problem is that the SECOND one is always the easiest. Y VI>ED>can spend hours trying to figure out how to get them little SIMM suckers VI>ED>into the memory slots, and then once you do they click in so quickly its VI>ED>spooky. VI>ED>But I'm with you. I'll buy one assembled. The software is enough of a VI>ED>challenge. VI>Actually, I have been considering buying a memory chip and paying VI>someone to install it with me. I just don't know if economically it VI>makes sense. With the price of puters where they are, it could end up VI>costing me close to the same amount to upgrade my existing system as to VI>buy a new system! Wow, you would really PAY someone to install A "SIMM"? (I don't know- it just sound funny ta me) Really all you would have ta do is place the SIMM (chip) into A SIMM socket on your motherboard (all ya need ta know- is how pins you need) ie: 30pin etc.... Date: Friday, February 27, 1998 9:11pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 744944 To: Steve Flur Re: quoting (Reply to #744873, Reply to #744858, Reply to #744835, R*) (1 reply) SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>I know for me if I couldn't get inter SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>quickly to update my system. SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>Since I have not had such access yet, I SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>however I am aware what I am missing. SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>For me, the whole reason I have a puter is SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>the net and AH the puter in my apartment wo SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>weight. :) SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>My problem is moving the paper to make way for SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>With that, when there's a will, there's a way. : SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>Well........maybe... SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>One way or the other, if you want a new computer bad en SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>figure out a way to do it. :) SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>Can I borrow your credit card? SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>THAT'S a whole other issue. So far, all you have said is tha SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>don't have the space for a new computer. I haven't heard you SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>you don't have the money to get one! SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>Besides I need to keep my credit card clear so I can buy myse SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>one next year! :) SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>It does not hurt to ask while you are sounding sympathetic. SF>VI>SF>VI>Sympathethic yes. Crazy no. :) SF>VI>SF>Oh well......can't help but try. SF>VI>Suppose not. :) SF>I saw some ads this week for 300+htz computers that were under $2,000, SF>so prices are still falling. Computer prices are always falling (one week something could be like $500.00- the next weeks it's only like $125.00) A perfect example: those AWE64 cards- they were like $189.00 A little while ago- now you can pretty much get one for $89.00 (maybe even cheaper at A SHOW) Date: Friday, February 27, 1998 9:16pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 744945 To: Editor Re: quoting (Reply to #744877, Reply to #744871, Reply to #744865, R*) ED>V >ED>But I'm with you. I'll buy one assembled. The software is enough of ED>V >ED>challenge. ED>V > ED>V >Actually, I have been considering buying a memory chip and paying ED>V >someone to install it with me. I just don't know if economically it ED>V >makes sense. With the price of puters where they are, it could end up ED>V >costing me close to the same amount to upgrade my existing system as t ED>V >buy a new system! ED>You hit that on the head. I used to set $700 as the break point between ED>upgrading and buying. I'd say that $400 is close not. You can keep your ED>monitor, keyboard and modem, and get a 133Mhz box with 16mb of RAM and a ED>2.1gb disk, probably a CDROM also, FROM IBM for $700. Period. That's with ED>W95 installed and set to go. More memory and installation is bound to run ED>you $100+. Maybe more. ED>--- ED> þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Go one even better- just keep your Keyboard,Monitor,Etc... and just replace the motherboard ;-) I know A guy who had A pentium 133, and instead of just buyin A new motherboard- he goes out and buys A hold new COMPUTER - (what A waste of money)-- all he had ta do was preplace his old motherboard (or even just have replaced the CPU) Me- If my computer isnt fast enuff- I'll just sell my motherboard- then buy A faster Motheboard ;-) Date: Friday, February 27, 1998 9:18pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 744946 To: Nightbird Re: quoting (Reply to #744885, Reply to #744859, Reply to #744851, R*) NI>VI>SC>VI>I would NEVER take on this kind of upgrade myself. My choice is si NI>VI>SC>VI>to buy a new puter or to pay someone to upgrade the one I have. NI>VI>SC>I felt the same way untill I tried it. NI>VI>SC>Unlike the old radios and other electronic gadgets, most of the inside NI>VI>SC>of a computer are on expansion cards.You disconnect the power supply, NI>VI>SC>ground yourself on the metal of the computer case and remove/replace t NI>VI>SC>part of your choice. NI>VI>SC>I am a total klutz, yet I built a 486/33, added a cd rom and sound car NI>VI>SC>and then upgraded the cpu to 66mhz, and it seemed simple. NI>VI>Simple to you, maybe. The few times I have seen the insides of my NI>VI>puter I have been totally scared and 100% intimidated. I definitely NI>VI>wouldn't try to rebuild my puter! NI>Vida, all Steve C had to do due was take out the first chip(486/33) and NI>replace it with the 486/66 chip, really easy. NI>--- X 2.1 TD þ Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic Keep in mind- alot of newbies would be so scared (that they would most likely bend ever single PIN on the CPU) hehehehehehe... Date: Friday, February 27, 1998 9:22pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 744947 To: Editor Re: quoting (Reply to #744905, Reply to #744896, Reply to #744885, R*) BBBBBBBBBBBda, all Steve C had to do due was take out the first chip(486/33) ED>V >NI>replace it with the 486/66 chip, really easy. ED>V >NI>--- ED>V > ED>V >Not for a super klutz like me! :) ED>Replacing CPU chips can be funny stuff. About the only thing more amazing ED>than the chip itself is the packaging and the sockets. I once had to ED>replace the CPU chip on my PS/2. The new chip came with a "chip puller". I ED>figger if they paid 15 cents for the chip puller they overpaid. What ED>followed was hysterical. The three stooges couldn't have done better. ED>Literally, two of us holding the system down, and then one guy yanking on ED>the chip. It must have looked like 19th century dentists office. Finally, ED>the chip puller snapped, nearly sending one guy out the window. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAinvested in a REAL chip puller. Not so easy since no one wants ED>to sell less than a hundred. The thing looked like simple pliers, but it ED>moved in so many directions at once, spreading the socket, digging under ED>the chip, and then pulling up, it still gives me a headache to think about ED>it. With that gadget you could remove the chip, with one hand, in about 10 ED>seconds. ED>--- ED> þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy yeah, I know what ya mean (the damm CPU is funny as hell!) I wish the CPU was in A regurlar socket.... Date: Saturday, February 28, 1998 2:32pm Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 744955 To: Steve C Re: quoting (Reply to #744937, Reply to #744905, Reply to #744896, R*) (1 reply) SC>ED>Finally, we invested in a REAL chip puller. Not so easy since no on SC>ED>to sell less than a hundred. The thing looked like simple pliers, b SC>ED>moved in so many directions at once, spreading the socket, digging SC>ED>the chip, and then pulling up, it still gives me a headache to thin SC>ED>it. With that gadget you could remove the chip, with one hand, in a SC>ED>seconds. SC> SC>Luckilly this motherboard had a ZIF socket, so the chip SC>removal/insertion was trhe easiest part of it. BTW - I saw this week's circular from Circuit City, and I'm running out of words to describe what is happening. This ad was for a Packard Bell, a sort of name brand. It was something like $1100, for a 233 Mhz, 3.1gb disk, 32mb RAM, 14" monitor AND printer. Everyone seems to be resisting advertising prices below $1000, so they are loading up the machines. But someplace out there is lurking a $700 computer that is a serious machine. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Saturday, February 28, 1998 6:10pm Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 744958 To: Editor Re: quoting (Reply to #744903, Reply to #744895, Reply to #744877, R*) (1 reply) ED>V >ED>You hit that on the head. I used to set $700 as the break point bet ED>V >ED>upgrading and buying. I'd say that $400 is close not. You can keep ED>V >ED>monitor, keyboard and modem, and get a 133Mhz box with 16mb of RAM ED>V >ED>2.1gb disk, probably a CDROM also, FROM IBM for $700. Period. That' ED>V >ED>W95 installed and set to go. More memory and installation is bound ED>V >ED>you $100+. Maybe more. ED>V > ED>V >That's the way I figure it. ED>Unless you have plans for your old system, if you have a decent sized disk ED>drive, what you want to think about is seeing if you can have that drive ED>ADDED to any new box. Assuming compatability of buss types, etc. This will ED>save you a ton of time since all of your old files are right there. I still don't know what the heck I am doing in terms of buying a new computer now or continuing just to hang out with my existing system until next year. But one of the ideas that I have is that IF I buy a new system I may mailorder it from Micron or Gateway and get it made to order with a Zip drive or perhaps even a recordable CD Rom drive if those become more available. Date: Saturday, February 28, 1998 6:12pm Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 744959 To: Editor Re: quoting (Reply to #744905, Reply to #744896, Reply to #744885, R*) ED>V >NI>Vida, all Steve C had to do due was take out the first chip(486/33) ED>V >NI>replace it with the 486/66 chip, really easy. ED>V >NI>--- ED>V > ED>V >Not for a super klutz like me! :) ED>Replacing CPU chips can be funny stuff. About the only thing more amazing ED>than the chip itself is the packaging and the sockets. I once had to ED>replace the CPU chip on my PS/2. The new chip came with a "chip puller". I ED>figger if they paid 15 cents for the chip puller they overpaid. What ED>followed was hysterical. The three stooges couldn't have done better. ED>Literally, two of us holding the system down, and then one guy yanking on ED>the chip. It must have looked like 19th century dentists office. Finally, ED>the chip puller snapped, nearly sending one guy out the window. ED>Finally, we invested in a REAL chip puller. Not so easy since no one wants ED>to sell less than a hundred. The thing looked like simple pliers, but it ED>moved in so many directions at once, spreading the socket, digging under ED>the chip, and then pulling up, it still gives me a headache to think about ED>it. With that gadget you could remove the chip, with one hand, in about 10 ED>seconds. Yeah. I know it's no big deal to repalce a chip. Right after I bought my computer in 1995 they had that problem with the "math co-processor" in the Pentium chips. So with Bob's help I was able to replace the chip. :) Date: Saturday, February 28, 1998 6:14pm Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 744960 To: Steve Flur Re: quoting (Reply to #744910, Reply to #744894, Reply to #744873, R*) (1 reply) SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>I know for me if I couldn't get SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>quickly to update my system. SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>Since I have not had such access y SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>however I am aware what I am missi SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>For me, the whole reason I have a put SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>the net and AH the puter in my apartm SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>weight. :) SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>My problem is moving the paper to make w SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>With that, when there's a will, there's a w SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>Well........maybe... SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>One way or the other, if you want a new computer SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>figure out a way to do it. :) SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>Can I borrow your credit card? SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>THAT'S a whole other issue. So far, all you have said SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>don't have the space for a new computer. I haven't hea SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>you don't have the money to get one! SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>Besides I need to keep my credit card clear so I can bu SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>one next year! :) SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>It does not hurt to ask while you are sounding sympathetic SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>Sympathethic yes. Crazy no. :) SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>Oh well......can't help but try. SF>VI>SF>VI>Suppose not. :) SF>VI>SF>I saw some ads this week for 300+htz computers that were under $2,000, SF>VI>SF>so prices are still falling. SF>VI>The question is until when? SF>My question all along, which remains an obstacle in my committing to a SF>new system. My best guess is that the prices may continue to drop for another month or so. Even up to the summer. But once Win 98 comes out, the prices will shoot up most likely. Date: Saturday, February 28, 1998 6:16pm Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 744961 To: Amiga Re: quoting (Reply to #744940, Reply to #744820, Reply to #744810, R*) (2 replies) AM>BI>ED>V >AM>you can get A pentium board for like $90 - then add another $100 AM>VI>ED>V >AM>for the CPU ;-) (for $200.00 you can have A nice 200mhz pentium) AM>VI>ED>V > AM>VI>ED>V >If you know what you are doing building is the better way! I, my AM>VI>ED>V >friend, don't know what I am doing in that realm. :) AM>VI>ED>Not knowing what they were doing hasn't stopped people before. (G) AM>VI>ED>Seriously, it would look like you are saving a bundle, but what you ar AM>VI>ED>really doing is trading your time for the manufacturer's time. Vida, t AM>VI>ED>stuff is just SOOOOOO sophisticated today. Getting all this stuff to w AM>VI>ED>and play well together is an absolute art form. Do you appreciate how AM>VI>ED>200 Mhz is? The CPU completes a function every 5 nanoseconds. (I'm not AM>VI>ED>how many clock cycles it takes to actually execute an instruction.) It AM>VI>ED>takes a hydrogen bomb 100 nanoseconds to explode. That means that A 20 AM>VI>ED>chip... an OBSOLETE chip, can perform 20 clock cycles while an AM>VI>ED>thermonuclear bomb is going off! AM>VI>The fact that it IS so sophisicated is what scares the hell out of me. AM>VI>I would NEVER take on this kind of upgrade myself. My choice is simply AM>VI>to buy a new puter or to pay someone to upgrade the one I have. AM>It's really not that hard (but I guess if you never even took the case AM>off of your computer before?) things would seem very hard... AM>But really- even the "NEWBIE" computer users cam do simple stuff like AM>upgrading A CPU (just pop out the old boy & pop in A new boy)- then AM>agian ya gotta know which CPU's will work on your board (ie: ya would'nt AM>wanna throw A 233mhz if ya motherboard only does like 100mhz for AM>example. My existing system has a 66 mhz motherboard so I think it would be far behind my capabilities to replace it! Date: Saturday, February 28, 1998 6:18pm Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 744962 To: Amiga Re: quoting (Reply to #744942, Reply to #744859, Reply to #744851, R*) AM>VI>SC>VI>The fact that it IS so sophisicated is what scares the hell out of AM>VI>SC>VI>I would NEVER take on this kind of upgrade myself. My choice is si AM>VI>SC>VI>to buy a new puter or to pay someone to upgrade the one I have. AM>VI>SC>I felt the same way untill I tried it. AM>VI>SC>Unlike the old radios and other electronic gadgets, most of the inside AM>VI>SC>of a computer are on expansion cards.You disconnect the power supply, AM>VI>SC>ground yourself on the metal of the computer case and remove/replace t AM>VI>SC>part of your choice. AM>VI>SC>I am a total klutz, yet I built a 486/33, added a cd rom and sound car AM>VI>SC>and then upgraded the cpu to 66mhz, and it seemed simple. AM>VI>Simple to you, maybe. The few times I have seen the insides of my AM>VI>puter I have been totally scared and 100% intimidated. I definitely AM>VI>wouldn't try to rebuild my puter! AM>I guess it's also the ERA- A computer user comes from (ie: I'm from the AM>Commodore 64 era, we pretty much did our own repairs on the C64..) every AM>other week we would open up the computer or diskdrives ta see what was AM>going on inside ;-) AM>But really- people have ta start going thru their hardware (find out AM>what each part does)-- because there are some many " AM>Computer shops"- that will rip you off!!!!! AM>Why do you think every time something is wrong with your COMPUTER- they AM>say.. well ya gonna have ta bring the hold thing in (hehehe) so they AM>tell you that you need A new motherboard- when it's really only your AM>harddrive that needs ta be fixed Yes, finding a reputable person is the problem! I know my intimidation of the innards of my system makes me super vulnerable to rip offs. But I don't think it is something that I can cure. I am not manually dexterious at all. Date: Saturday, February 28, 1998 6:20pm Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 744963 To: Amiga Re: quoting (Reply to #744943, Reply to #744871, Reply to #744865, R*) (1 reply) AM>BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBl klutz, yet I built a 486/33, added a cd rom and sou AM>VI>ED>V >SC>and then upgraded the cpu to 66mhz, and it seemed simple. AM>VI>ED>V > AM>VI>ED>V >Simple to you, maybe. The few times I have seen the insides of my AM>VI>ED>V >puter I have been totally scared and 100% intimidated. I definitel AM>VI>ED>V >wouldn't try to rebuild my puter! AM>VI>ED>Personally I wouldn't do it either, but you really have to understand AM>VI>ED>simple it has become. My old IBM PS/2 50Z could be almost totally AM>VI>ED>disassembled without tools! That includes disk drives, diskette drives AM>VI>ED>so on. It was weird. I think you finally needed a screwdriver to repla AM>VI>ED>the mother board, but other than that, everything snapped together lik AM>VI>ED>child's raincoat! AM>VI>ED>The current generation is tougher, but its also a zillion times the AM>VI>ED>computer. The big problem is that the SECOND one is always the easiest AM>VI>ED>can spend hours trying to figure out how to get them little SIMM sucke AM>VI>ED>into the memory slots, and then once you do they click in so quickly i AM>VI>ED>spooky. AM>VI>ED>But I'm with you. I'll buy one assembled. The software is enough of a AM>VI>ED>challenge. AM>VI>Actually, I have been considering buying a memory chip and paying AM>VI>someone to install it with me. I just don't know if economically it AM>VI>makes sense. With the price of puters where they are, it could end up AM>VI>costing me close to the same amount to upgrade my existing system as to AM>VI>buy a new system! AM>Wow, you would really PAY someone to install A "SIMM"? (I don't know- it AM>just sound funny ta me) AM>Really all you would have ta do is place the SIMM (chip) into A SIMM AM>socket on your motherboard (all ya need ta know- is how pins you need) AM>ie: 30pin etc.... Just changing a chip is one thing. But I am sure that for my to upgrade my existing system to something close to what's out there now it would be much more complicated than that. Date: Saturday, February 28, 1998 11:23pm Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 744965 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #744958, Reply to #744903, Reply to #744895, R*) (2 replies) V >ED>Unless you have plans for your old system, if you have a decent siz V >ED>drive, what you want to think about is seeing if you can have that V >ED>ADDED to any new box. Assuming compatability of buss types, etc. Th V >ED>save you a ton of time since all of your old files are right there. V > V >I still don't know what the heck I am doing in terms of buying a new V >computer now or continuing just to hang out with my existing system V >until next year. But one of the ideas that I have is that IF I buy a V >new system I may mailorder it from Micron or Gateway and get it made t V >order with a Zip drive or perhaps even a recordable CD Rom drive if V >those become more available. I'm not convinced the ZIP drive is here to stay. 100mb on a diskette sounds nice, but those are big bucks for the diskettes, something like $20 I think, and it takes $400 worth to back up the whole system! That's big money for one set of archival backups. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Sunday, March 1, 1998 7:43am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 744967 To: Editor Re: quoting (Reply to #744965, Reply to #744958, Reply to #744903, R*) (2 replies) ED>V >ED>Unless you have plans for your old system, if you have a decent siz ED>V >ED>drive, what you want to think about is seeing if you can have that ED>V >ED>ADDED to any new box. Assuming compatability of buss types, etc. Th ED>V >ED>save you a ton of time since all of your old files are right there. ED>V > ED>V >I still don't know what the heck I am doing in terms of buying a new ED>V >computer now or continuing just to hang out with my existing system ED>V >until next year. But one of the ideas that I have is that IF I buy a ED>V >new system I may mailorder it from Micron or Gateway and get it made t ED>V >order with a Zip drive or perhaps even a recordable CD Rom drive if ED>V >those become more available. ED>I'm not convinced the ZIP drive is here to stay. 100mb on a diskette sounds ED>nice, but those are big bucks for the diskettes, something like $20 I ED>think, and it takes $400 worth to back up the whole system! That's big ED>money for one set of archival backups. OUCH!!! $400 to back up the system?!? Is there a cheaper alternative other than having zillions and zillions of regular disks? Date: Sunday, March 1, 1998 1:54pm Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 744969 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #744967, Reply to #744965, Reply to #744958, R*) (1 reply) V >ED>I'm not convinced the ZIP drive is here to stay. 100mb on a diskett V >ED>nice, but those are big bucks for the diskettes, something like $20 V >ED>think, and it takes $400 worth to back up the whole system! That's V >ED>money for one set of archival backups. V > V > V >OUCH!!! $400 to back up the system?!? Is there a cheaper alternative V >other than having zillions and zillions of regular disks? A tape drive is an alternative. Lets look at the two sides first..... Tape... $xxx - have no clue. Each tape holds app 500-1000mb or so, and cost something like $10. I'd don't have a good handle on these prices, but I'm in the neighborhood. Depending on the tape, a "set of backups" would run around $20. Backups would run more or less unattended. The biggest downside of a tape is that if you want to retrieve one file from the middle, its a serious PITA. Lots of software out there, some of it pretty easy to use. ZIP drive... $yyy - probably less than the tape, but not that much less. Diskettes hold around 100mb cost $10-20??? A "set of backups would cost a minimum of $100, possible $200. If you keep two sets of backups, a smart idea, double that. If you keep the more traditional three sets, even more. Backups are far from unattended since you are plunking in 5-10 disks for a decent set of backups. The ZIP drives are probably more reliable than tapes, make it easier to retrieve one file from the middle, and have a certain comfort factor. Personally, I think that a tape drive is a better choice. Because of the larger amount of data you can store on each tape, you will be able to back up a substantial amount of program and data in a single shot. A program like "Ghost" will back up the entire disk, maybe even on one tape. Because backups are easier to perform, you are more likely to do them. I hate to say something negative about new technology as nifty as those ZIP drives, but I'd take a hard look at a tape drive first. I pulled my numbers out of thin air, so you might want to check them out. To me, the big downside is the cycling of multiple disks through the drive. Writable CDROMs are out there, but last I heard they cost more than the PC. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Sunday, March 1, 1998 6:52pm Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 744973 To: Editor Re: quoting (Reply to #744969, Reply to #744967, Reply to #744965, R*) (1 reply) ED>V >ED>I'm not convinced the ZIP drive is here to stay. 100mb on a diskett ED>V >ED>nice, but those are big bucks for the diskettes, something like $20 ED>V >ED>think, and it takes $400 worth to back up the whole system! That's ED>V >ED>money for one set of archival backups. ED>V > ED>V > ED>V >OUCH!!! $400 to back up the system?!? Is there a cheaper alternative ED>V >other than having zillions and zillions of regular disks? ED>A tape drive is an alternative. Lets look at the two sides first..... ED>Tape... $xxx - have no clue. Each tape holds app 500-1000mb or so, and cost ED>something like $10. I'd don't have a good handle on these prices, but I'm ED>in the neighborhood. Depending on the tape, a "set of backups" would run ED>around $20. Backups would run more or less unattended. The biggest downside ED>of a tape is that if you want to retrieve one file from the middle, its a ED>serious PITA. Lots of software out there, some of it pretty easy to use. ED>ZIP drive... $yyy - probably less than the tape, but not that much less. ED>Diskettes hold around 100mb cost $10-20??? A "set of backups would cost a ED>minimum of $100, possible $200. If you keep two sets of backups, a smart ED>idea, double that. If you keep the more traditional three sets, even more. ED>Backups are far from unattended since you are plunking in 5-10 disks for a ED>decent set of backups. Why do you say it is a good idea to keep TWO sets of backups? Isn't that a bit obsessive? I can barely keep up the discipline to make ONE backup for my programs,etc. But two backups?!? Forget about it! :) ED>The ZIP drives are probably more reliable than tapes, make it easier to ED>retrieve one file from the middle, and have a certain comfort factor. ED>Personally, I think that a tape drive is a better choice. Because of the ED>larger amount of data you can store on each tape, you will be able to back ED>up a substantial amount of program and data in a single shot. A program ED>like "Ghost" will back up the entire disk, maybe even on one tape. Because ED>backups are easier to perform, you are more likely to do them. ED>I hate to say something negative about new technology as nifty as those ZIP ED>drives, but I'd take a hard look at a tape drive first. I pulled my numbers ED>out of thin air, so you might want to check them out. To me, the big ED>downside is the cycling of multiple disks through the drive. No you got me confused? Cycling mutliple disks through the drive? Does that mean you have to download the program on the normal 3.5 disk and then put it into your tape drive? Sounds like too much effort to me. If it's too much of a bother, I won't do it. As it stands now if it is a program I can retrieve off the net I haven't been doing back ups, even though I know I should. I figure worse comes to worse, I'll just retrieve the program off the net. The effort of copying the program on several disks is just not worth the effort to me. I know, I'm being bad. :) ED>Writable CDROMs are out there, but last I heard they cost more than the PC. I've heard the same thing. But I think sooner or later they will come down in price. But that's not likely to happen within the next 3-12 months, which is the frame work I see for me making a decision as what to do about upgrading my existing system vs. buying a new system. Date: Sunday, March 1, 1998 9:24pm Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 744976 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #744973, Reply to #744969, Reply to #744967, R*) (1 reply) V >Why do you say it is a good idea to keep TWO sets of backups? Isn't V >that a bit obsessive? I can barely keep up the discipline to make ONE V >backup for my programs,etc. But two backups?!? Forget about it! :) Alternating backups. Its a real Kodak moment if your system crashes while making the backups. No system, no backups. So you keep two sets and alternate. Also, the nightmare is that something is screwed up and you make the backup, and then when you discover the screwed up file, you discover you backed it up screwed up. That's why you keep multiple sets. V >ED>I hate to say something negative about new technology as nifty as t V >ED>drives, but I'd take a hard look at a tape drive first. I pulled my V >ED>out of thin air, so you might want to check them out. To me, the bi V >ED>downside is the cycling of multiple disks through the drive. V > V >No you got me confused? Cycling mutliple disks through the drive? V >Does that mean you have to download the program on the normal 3.5 disk V >and then put it into your tape drive? Sounds like too much effort to V >me. If it's too much of a bother, I won't do it. The ZIP drives only handle 100mb per diskette. You could stand there forever trying to make really big backups. Remember, we are talking gigabyte drives and 100mb diskettes. On the other hand, you could probably pop in the tape and go to sleep. V >As it stands now if it is a program I can retrieve off the net I V >haven't been doing back ups, even though I know I should. I figure V >worse comes to worse, I'll just retrieve the program off the net. The V >effort of copying the program on several disks is just not worth the V >effort to me. I know, I'm being bad. :) I do the same, basically only protecting my data. Its the operating system I worry about. I just reconstructed a small W95 system at work, and it took hours. It would take days to get my NT system back together. V >ED>Writable CDROMs are out there, but last I heard they cost more than V > V >I've heard the same thing. But I think sooner or later they will come V >down in price. But that's not likely to happen within the next 3-12 V >months, which is the frame work I see for me making a decision as what V >to do about upgrading my existing system vs. buying a new system. I'm not sure how far they will come down. The demand isn't there to gear up production lines, much less figure out how to cut the production costs. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Monday, March 2, 1998 6:24am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 744978 To: Editor Re: quoting (Reply to #744976, Reply to #744973, Reply to #744969, R*) (1 reply) ED>V >Why do you say it is a good idea to keep TWO sets of backups? Isn't ED>V >that a bit obsessive? I can barely keep up the discipline to make ONE ED>V >backup for my programs,etc. But two backups?!? Forget about it! :) ED>Alternating backups. Its a real Kodak moment if your system crashes while ED>making the backups. No system, no backups. So you keep two sets and ED>alternate. Also, the nightmare is that something is screwed up and you make ED>the backup, and then when you discover the screwed up file, you discover ED>you backed it up screwed up. That's why you keep multiple sets. ARGH!!! It still sounds like you are being mighty obsessive to me my friend. Next you will have back ups for the back ups for the back ups. :) ED>V >ED>I hate to say something negative about new technology as nifty as t ED>V >ED>drives, but I'd take a hard look at a tape drive first. I pulled my ED>V >ED>out of thin air, so you might want to check them out. To me, the bi ED>V >ED>downside is the cycling of multiple disks through the drive. ED>V > ED>V >No you got me confused? Cycling mutliple disks through the drive? ED>V >Does that mean you have to download the program on the normal 3.5 disk ED>V >and then put it into your tape drive? Sounds like too much effort to ED>V >me. If it's too much of a bother, I won't do it. ED>The ZIP drives only handle 100mb per diskette. You could stand there ED>forever trying to make really big backups. Remember, we are talking ED>gigabyte drives and 100mb diskettes. On the other hand, you could probably ED>pop in the tape and go to sleep. ED>V >As it stands now if it is a program I can retrieve off the net I ED>V >haven't been doing back ups, even though I know I should. I figure ED>V >worse comes to worse, I'll just retrieve the program off the net. The ED>V >effort of copying the program on several disks is just not worth the ED>V >effort to me. I know, I'm being bad. :) ED>I do the same, basically only protecting my data. Its the operating system ED>I worry about. I just reconstructed a small W95 system at work, and it took ED>hours. It would take days to get my NT system back together. Yes but didn't your computer come with a back up CD for your system? I know my computer did. I actually had to use it one time when my system crashed. ED>V >ED>Writable CDROMs are out there, but last I heard they cost more than ED>V > ED>V >I've heard the same thing. But I think sooner or later they will come ED>V >down in price. But that's not likely to happen within the next 3-12 ED>V >months, which is the frame work I see for me making a decision as what ED>V >to do about upgrading my existing system vs. buying a new system. ED>I'm not sure how far they will come down. The demand isn't there to gear up ED>production lines, much less figure out how to cut the production costs. I think the demand is there. It's just a matter of time. Date: Monday, March 2, 1998 10:51am Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 744981 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #744978, Reply to #744976, Reply to #744973, R*) (1 reply) V >ED>Alternating backups. Its a real Kodak moment if your system crashes V >ED>making the backups. No system, no backups. So you keep two sets and V >ED>alternate. Also, the nightmare is that something is screwed up and V >ED>the backup, and then when you discover the screwed up file, you dis V >ED>you backed it up screwed up. That's why you keep multiple sets. V > V >ARGH!!! It still sounds like you are being mighty obsessive to me my V >friend. Next you will have back ups for the back ups for the back ups V > :) Actually, the dataprocessing standard has always been THREE sets of backups, grandparent, parent and child as they are known. The classic problem, which has caught me more than once, is that a module is wiped out, but no one notices it for a few weeks. We do daily backups with a cycle of 5 tapes, so the creamed module was long gone. What we do is pull a tape from the cycle once a week, and hang onto it for a few months, in the hopes that any problems turn up before all trace is lost. Fairly common practice. But with PCs, I worry more about a failure DURING backup, with the backed up data already half overwritten. That's a serious issue. You always should use alternating backups for critical data. V >ED>The ZIP drives only handle 100mb per diskette. You could stand ther V >ED>forever trying to make really big backups. Remember, we are talking V >ED>gigabyte drives and 100mb diskettes. On the other hand, you could p V >ED>pop in the tape and go to sleep. V > V >ED>V >As it stands now if it is a program I can retrieve off the net I V >ED>V >haven't been doing back ups, even though I know I should. I fig V >ED>V >worse comes to worse, I'll just retrieve the program off the net V >ED>V >effort of copying the program on several disks is just not worth V >ED>V >effort to me. I know, I'm being bad. :) V > V >ED>I do the same, basically only protecting my data. Its the operating V >ED>I worry about. I just reconstructed a small W95 system at work, and V >ED>hours. It would take days to get my NT system back together. V > V >Yes but didn't your computer come with a back up CD for your system? V >know my computer did. I actually had to use it one time when my syste V >crashed. Yes, but this doesn't save me the time. First, I would install NT4, call it two hours, then Borland C, Wordperfect 8, Visual C++, Quicken, ad nauseum. Not only would it take me forever, but I'd have to get all the defaults set up the way I want them at each step. Very labor intensive. If I had a tape, I'd probably restore NT, put in the tape, and go to sleep. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Monday, March 2, 1998 2:16pm Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 744988 To: Amiga Re: quoting (Reply to #744944, Reply to #744873, Reply to #744858, R*) (3 replies) AM>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>I know for me if I couldn't get in AM>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>quickly to update my system. AM>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>Since I have not had such access yet, AM>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>however I am aware what I am missing. AM>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>For me, the whole reason I have a puter AM>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>the net and AH the puter in my apartment AM>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>weight. :) AM>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>My problem is moving the paper to make way AM>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>With that, when there's a will, there's a way. AM>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>Well........maybe... AM>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>One way or the other, if you want a new computer bad AM>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>figure out a way to do it. :) AM>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>Can I borrow your credit card? AM>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>THAT'S a whole other issue. So far, all you have said is AM>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>don't have the space for a new computer. I haven't heard AM>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>you don't have the money to get one! AM>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>Besides I need to keep my credit card clear so I can buy m AM>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>one next year! :) AM>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>It does not hurt to ask while you are sounding sympathetic. AM>SF>VI>SF>VI>Sympathethic yes. Crazy no. :) AM>SF>VI>SF>Oh well......can't help but try. AM>SF>VI>Suppose not. :) AM>SF>I saw some ads this week for 300+htz computers that were under $2,000, AM>SF>so prices are still falling. AM>Computer prices are always falling (one week something could be like AM>$500.00- the next weeks it's only like $125.00) AM>A perfect example: those AWE64 cards- they were like $189.00 A little AM>while ago- now you can pretty much get one for $89.00 (maybe even AM>cheaper at A SHOW) So.....I keep asking how is a person suppose to know when is the time to buy and when to wait. Date: Monday, March 2, 1998 2:19pm Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 744989 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #744960, Reply to #744910, Reply to #744894, R*) (2 replies) Why would Win 98 cause the prices of computers to go up? Date: Monday, March 2, 1998 6:15pm Forum: Computing From: Steve C Msg#: 744992 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #744961, Reply to #744940, Reply to #744820, R*) (1 reply) VI>AM>It's really not that hard (but I guess if you never even took the case VI>AM>off of your computer before?) things would seem very hard... VI>AM>But really- even the "NEWBIE" computer users cam do simple stuff like VI>AM>upgrading A CPU (just pop out the old boy & pop in A new boy)- then VI>AM>agian ya gotta know which CPU's will work on your board (ie: ya would'nt VI>AM>wanna throw A 233mhz if ya motherboard only does like 100mhz for VI>AM>example. VI>My existing system has a 66 mhz motherboard so I think it would be far VI>behind my capabilities to replace it! I think your motherboard is similar to mine. Mine was a 486sx/33mhz that I upgraded to dx2/66mhz. I think mine is upgradeable to 133mhz with one of those 5x86 conversion chips. * OLX 2.1 TD * Every tavern scene should end with a brawl Date: Monday, March 2, 1998 6:15pm Forum: Computing From: Steve C Msg#: 744993 To: Editor Re: quoting (Reply to #744965, Reply to #744958, Reply to #744903, R*) (1 reply) ED>I'm not convinced the ZIP drive is here to stay. 100mb on a diskette sounds ED>nice, but those are big bucks for the diskettes, something like $20 I ED>think, and it takes $400 worth to back up the whole system! That's big ED>money for one set of archival backups. In my opinion, the successor to the zip drive is already out there. It is the LS-120 drive. It uses a special 120MB floppy but also reads and writes to standard 1.44MB floppies. But even that has little chance of getting anywhere with thr prices for Jazz drives comming down to reasonable amounts (less than $300) and the ability to store 3GB using data compression. * OLX 2.1 TD * I'm a registered tagline thief. Date: Monday, March 2, 1998 6:15pm Forum: Computing From: Steve C Msg#: 744995 To: Amiga Re: quoting (Reply to #744941, Reply to #744851, Reply to #744820, R*) AM>SC>I am a total klutz, yet I built a 486/33, added a cd rom and sound card AM>SC>and then upgraded the cpu to 66mhz, and it seemed simple. AM>Yup, it's just that simple :-) AM>basicly- you start with A motherboard- then add A CPU, then add some AM>RAM/simm's, then add A GFX CARD, then your HARDDRIVE/controllers- and AM>your pretty much set :-) AM>Build is the best way ta go! ;-) Well it was enjoyable, but I think once my current motherboard is no longer upgradeable, I may go the route of buying a complete system. * OLX 2.1 TD * Mary had a little lamb. The doctor was surprised Date: Monday, March 2, 1998 6:15pm Forum: Computing From: Steve C Msg#: 744996 To: Editor Re: quoting (Reply to #744955, Reply to #744937, Reply to #744905, R*) (1 reply) ED>BTW - I saw this week's circular from Circuit City, and I'm running out of ED>words to describe what is happening. This ad was for a Packard Bell, a sort ED>of name brand. It was something like $1100, for a 233 Mhz, 3.1gb disk, 32mb ED>RAM, 14" monitor AND printer. Everyone seems to be resisting advertising ED>prices below $1000, so they are loading up the machines. But someplace out ED>there is lurking a $700 computer that is a serious machine. I think with prices like that, It may be better to buy a new system rather then replace a motherboard, ram, et. al. * OLX 2.1 TD * There's too much blood in my caffeine system Date: Monday, March 2, 1998 8:30pm Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 744998 To: Editor Re: quoting (Reply to #744981, Reply to #744978, Reply to #744976, R*) (1 reply) ED>V >ED>Alternating backups. Its a real Kodak moment if your system crashes ED>V >ED>making the backups. No system, no backups. So you keep two sets and ED>V >ED>alternate. Also, the nightmare is that something is screwed up and ED>V >ED>the backup, and then when you discover the screwed up file, you dis ED>V >ED>you backed it up screwed up. That's why you keep multiple sets. ED>V > ED>V >ARGH!!! It still sounds like you are being mighty obsessive to me my ED>V >friend. Next you will have back ups for the back ups for the back ups ED>V > :) ED>Actually, the dataprocessing standard has always been THREE sets of ED>backups, grandparent, parent and child as they are known. The ED>classic problem, which has caught me more than once, is that a module is ED>wiped out, but no one notices it for a few weeks. We do daily backups with ED>a cycle of 5 tapes, so the creamed module was long gone. What we do is pull ED>a tape from the cycle once a week, and hang onto it for a few months, in ED>the hopes that any problems turn up before all trace is lost. ED>Fairly common practice. But with PCs, I worry more about a failure DURING ED>backup, with the backed up data already half overwritten. That's a serious ED>issue. You always should use alternating backups for critical data. Definitely obsessive. :) ED>V >ED>The ZIP drives only handle 100mb per diskette. You could stand ther ED>V >ED>forever trying to make really big backups. Remember, we are talking ED>V >ED>gigabyte drives and 100mb diskettes. On the other hand, you could p ED>V >ED>pop in the tape and go to sleep. ED>V > ED>V >ED>V >As it stands now if it is a program I can retrieve off the net I ED>V >ED>V >haven't been doing back ups, even though I know I should. I fig ED>V >ED>V >worse comes to worse, I'll just retrieve the program off the net ED>V >ED>V >effort of copying the program on several disks is just not worth ED>V >ED>V >effort to me. I know, I'm being bad. :) ED>V > ED>V >ED>I do the same, basically only protecting my data. Its the operating ED>V >ED>I worry about. I just reconstructed a small W95 system at work, and ED>V >ED>hours. It would take days to get my NT system back together. ED>V > ED>V >Yes but didn't your computer come with a back up CD for your system? ED>V >know my computer did. I actually had to use it one time when my syste ED>V >crashed. ED>Yes, but this doesn't save me the time. First, I would install NT4, call it ED>two hours, then Borland C, Wordperfect 8, Visual C++, Quicken, ad nauseum. ED>Not only would it take me forever, but I'd have to get all the defaults set ED>up the way I want them at each step. Very labor intensive. If I had a tape, ED>I'd probably restore NT, put in the tape, and go to sleep. And without the tape drive, what would you do? Date: Monday, March 2, 1998 8:31pm Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 744999 To: Steve Flur Re: quoting (Reply to #744989, Reply to #744960, Reply to #744910, R*) (4 replies) SF>Why would Win 98 cause the prices of computers to go up? I figure the reason why the prices are so low now is that the dealers are trying to dump their stock of computers loaded with Win 95. Once Win 98 comes out the existing systems will be out of date. Date: Monday, March 2, 1998 8:33pm Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 745000 To: Steve C Re: quoting (Reply to #744992, Reply to #744961, Reply to #744940, R*) (2 replies) SC>VI>AM>It's really not that hard (but I guess if you never even took the case SC>VI>AM>off of your computer before?) things would seem very hard... SC>VI>AM>But really- even the "NEWBIE" computer users cam do simple stuff like SC>VI>AM>upgrading A CPU (just pop out the old boy & pop in A new boy)- then SC>VI>AM>agian ya gotta know which CPU's will work on your board (ie: ya would' SC>VI>AM>wanna throw A 233mhz if ya motherboard only does like 100mhz for SC>VI>AM>example. SC>VI>My existing system has a 66 mhz motherboard so I think it would be far SC>VI>behind my capabilities to replace it! SC>I think your motherboard is similar to mine. Mine was a 486sx/33mhz that SC>I upgraded to dx2/66mhz. SC>I think mine is upgradeable to 133mhz with one of those 5x86 conversion SC>chips. You got me beat. I have no idea how far I could push the baby I have. Date: Tuesday, March 3, 1998 8:37am Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 745009 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #744999, Reply to #744989, Reply to #744960, R*) (1 reply) VI>SF>Why would Win 98 cause the prices of computers to go up? VI>I figure the reason why the prices are so low now is that the dealers VI>are trying to dump their stock of computers loaded with Win 95. Once VI>Win 98 comes out the existing systems will be out of date. Sounds sort of logical, I think. Date: Tuesday, March 3, 1998 12:34pm Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 745028 To: Steve C Re: quoting (Reply to #744993, Reply to #744965, Reply to #744958, R*) (1 reply) SC>ED>I'm not convinced the ZIP drive is here to stay. 100mb on a diskett SC>ED>nice, but those are big bucks for the diskettes, something like $20 SC>ED>think, and it takes $400 worth to back up the whole system! That's SC>ED>money for one set of archival backups. SC> SC>In my opinion, the successor to the zip drive is already out there. SC>It is the LS-120 drive. It uses a special 120MB floppy but also reads SC>and writes to standard 1.44MB floppies. SC> SC>But even that has little chance of getting anywhere with thr prices fo SC>Jazz drives comming down to reasonable amounts (less than $300) and th SC>ability to store 3GB using data compression. I'm not sure if we were discussing the ZIP drives or the Jazz drives. The Jazz drives look like a better bet. You are right about the 3GB. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Tuesday, March 3, 1998 12:34pm Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 745029 To: Steve C Re: quoting (Reply to #744996, Reply to #744955, Reply to #744937, R*) (1 reply) SC>ED>BTW - I saw this week's circular from Circuit City, and I'm running SC>ED>words to describe what is happening. This ad was for a Packard Bell SC>ED>of name brand. It was something like $1100, for a 233 Mhz, 3.1gb di SC>ED>RAM, 14" monitor AND printer. Everyone seems to be resisting advert SC>ED>prices below $1000, so they are loading up the machines. But somepl SC>ED>there is lurking a $700 computer that is a serious machine. SC> SC>I think with prices like that, It may be better to buy a new system SC>rather then replace a motherboard, ram, et. al. Probably. Its tough to beat those numbers. If you want to go the mother board route, better to wait until the summer and see if the new 300Mhz+ stuff is available as "mother boards". But still, a 300Mhz chip isn't worth much unless the rest of the system is matched to it. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Tuesday, March 3, 1998 12:34pm Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 745030 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #744998, Reply to #744981, Reply to #744978, R*) (2 replies) V >ED>Fairly common practice. But with PCs, I worry more about a failure V >ED>backup, with the backed up data already half overwritten. That's a V >ED>issue. You always should use alternating backups for critical data. V > V >Definitely obsessive. :) Hey... dat's what I get paid for. During one meeting, in which the customer proudly presented his recovery solution, I showed him a half dozen ways that the recovery would lock up. He looked at me and asked if I wrote Gothic horror novels in my spare time. V >ED>Yes, but this doesn't save me the time. First, I would install NT4, V >ED>two hours, then Borland C, Wordperfect 8, Visual C++, Quicken, ad n V >ED>Not only would it take me forever, but I'd have to get all the defa V >ED>up the way I want them at each step. Very labor intensive. If I had V >ED>I'd probably restore NT, put in the tape, and go to sleep. V > V >And without the tape drive, what would you do? First of all, I think we are confusing ZIP drives and Jazz drives. The Jazz drives hold alot more. Upwards of a 1gig on each whatever. I'm going to spend some time looking into it this afternoon. But the point I'm making is that I'd love something where I start the backup and go to sleep, vs changing diskettes every 10 minutes for two hours. Right now, if my hard drive(s) fail, I have to install NT (about 2 hours), install Borland C, Microsoft C, Wordperfect 8, Quicken, several more programs, then start restoring data. It would pretty much be an all day event, if not an all weekend event. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Tuesday, March 3, 1998 12:34pm Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 745032 To: Steve Flur Re: quoting (Reply to #744988, Reply to #744944, Reply to #744873, R*) (1 reply) SF>AM>Computer prices are always falling (one week something could be lik SF>AM>$500.00- the next weeks it's only like $125.00) SF> SF>AM>A perfect example: those AWE64 cards- they were like $189.00 A litt SF>AM>while ago- now you can pretty much get one for $89.00 (maybe even SF>AM>cheaper at A SHOW) SF>So.....I keep asking how is a person suppose to know when is the time SF>buy and when to wait. You have to take it from the other side. You decide what it is that you need. Size the computer for that. Then increase it by 50% and look at the cost. If you can afford it, its time to buy. I will never forget a cousin in law of mine who got caught in that cycle some years back. She wanted to get a computer for word processing. Everytime she got ready to buy, prices dropped. So she waited. She wound up waiting almost seven years, and settled for a smart typewriter which was obsolete in six months. Whether she actually needed the computer or not is something I'll never understand. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Tuesday, March 3, 1998 12:34pm Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 745033 To: Steve Flur Re: quoting (Reply to #744989, Reply to #744960, Reply to #744910, R*) (2 replies) SF>Why would Win 98 cause the prices of computers to go up? Look at Windows 3.1 vs Windows 95. Windows 3.1 ran pretty well with 100mb of disk and 4mb of RAM. The book says you can run W95 in 8mb, but you better not be in a hurry. And 200mb is barely enough to load W95 and one application. So your "minimal machine" jumped from a 33Mhz 386 with 4mb of RAM and 200mb of disk to a minimum of a 75Mhz 496 with 16mb of RAM and a 1gb disk. Even with prices plunging, that costs. Then of course, that old 2400 baud modem is almost useless for browsing the web, so you get a 28.8, and so on. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Tuesday, March 3, 1998 12:34pm Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 745034 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #744999, Reply to #744989, Reply to #744960, R*) (2 replies) V >SF>Why would Win 98 cause the prices of computers to go up? V > V >I figure the reason why the prices are so low now is that the dealers V >are trying to dump their stock of computers loaded with Win 95. Once V >Win 98 comes out the existing systems will be out of date. V > Its not W98, its the new chips. I think its the "old" Pentium that is being pulled from production on April 15th. After that there will be no chips produced that are slower than 250Mhz. The 300, 400 and 500Mhz boxes will start arriving. If they don't get rid of their current stock, they won't be able to give them away. I still can't figure out what to do with my 25Mhz 286. Its almost as bad now with the 386 and soon the 486. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Tuesday, March 3, 1998 2:02pm Forum: Computing From: Steve C Msg#: 745036 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #745000, Reply to #744992, Reply to #744961, R*) (2 replies) VI>SC>I think your motherboard is similar to mine. Mine was a 486sx/33mhz that VI>SC>I upgraded to dx2/66mhz. VI>SC>I think mine is upgradeable to 133mhz with one of those 5x86 conversion VI>SC>chips. VI>You got me beat. I have no idea how far I could push the baby I have. Probably as far as mine, but with the way prices are falling, I think I'll wait till after the baby is born, then buy a whole new system. * OLX 2.1 TD * Friends; the marshmallows in the hot chocolate of life! Date: Tuesday, March 3, 1998 2:02pm Forum: Computing From: Steve C Msg#: 745039 To: Steve Flur Re: quoting (Reply to #744988, Reply to #744944, Reply to #744873, R*) (1 reply) SF>AM>Computer prices are always falling (one week something could be like SF>AM>$500.00- the next weeks it's only like $125.00) SF>AM>A perfect example: those AWE64 cards- they were like $189.00 A little SF>AM>while ago- now you can pretty much get one for $89.00 (maybe even SF>AM>cheaper at A SHOW) SF>So.....I keep asking how is a person suppose to know when is the time to SF>buy and when to wait. When a systen looks good and is within your price range. Keep in mind though, that the prices you see are for systems that are low end and will eventually be discontinued, so if you wait too long they will not be available. * OLX 2.1 TD * B Command to find what a BBS is about. Date: Tuesday, March 3, 1998 2:02pm Forum: Computing From: Steve C Msg#: 745040 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #744999, Reply to #744989, Reply to #744960, R*) (2 replies) VI>SF>Why would Win 98 cause the prices of computers to go up? VI>I figure the reason why the prices are so low now is that the dealers VI>are trying to dump their stock of computers loaded with Win 95. Once VI>Win 98 comes out the existing systems will be out of date. keep in mind that win 95 and win 98 are operating systems and can be installed on any computer with the ability to run them. The reason the prices are low is that there is a new generation of processers coming out that are between 300Mhz and 500Mhz, and will be followed in about another 18 months with systems running around 1000Mhz. They are lowering the prices on the lower powered Pentiuns to move them, because once the new stuff becomes more reasonably priced, no one will want the older stuff.(BTW a lot of this "older stuff" are actually pretty good systems and will be capable of running win 98 when it is released) * OLX 2.1 TD * Robert A. Heinlein memorial tagline Date: Tuesday, March 3, 1998 3:00pm Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 745042 To: Editor Re: quoting (Reply to #745032, Reply to #744988, Reply to #744944, R*) ED>SF>AM>Computer prices are always falling (one week something could be lik ED>SF>AM>$500.00- the next weeks it's only like $125.00) ED>SF> ED>SF>AM>A perfect example: those AWE64 cards- they were like $189.00 A litt ED>SF>AM>while ago- now you can pretty much get one for $89.00 (maybe even ED>SF>AM>cheaper at A SHOW) ED>SF>So.....I keep asking how is a person suppose to know when is the time ED>SF>buy and when to wait. ED>You have to take it from the other side. You decide what it is that you ED>need. Size the computer for that. Then increase it by 50% and look at the ED>cost. If you can afford it, its time to buy. ED>I will never forget a cousin in law of mine who got caught in that cycle ED>some years back. She wanted to get a computer for word processing. ED>Everytime she got ready to buy, prices dropped. So she waited. She wound up ED>waiting almost seven years, and settled for a smart typewriter which was ED>obsolete in six months. Whether she actually needed the computer or not is ED>something I'll never understand. ED>--- ED> þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy The way things are going I have been looking at middle to higher systems just so I do not waste my money, even if its cheap. Date: Tuesday, March 3, 1998 3:01pm Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 745043 To: Editor Re: quoting (Reply to #745033, Reply to #744989, Reply to #744960, R*) (3 replies) ED>SF>Why would Win 98 cause the prices of computers to go up? ED>Look at Windows 3.1 vs Windows 95. Windows 3.1 ran pretty well with 100mb ED>of disk and 4mb of RAM. The book says you can run W95 in 8mb, but you ED>better not be in a hurry. And 200mb is barely enough to load W95 and one ED>application. So your "minimal machine" jumped from a 33Mhz 386 with 4mb of ED>RAM and 200mb of disk to a minimum of a 75Mhz 496 with 16mb of RAM and a ED>1gb disk. Even with prices plunging, that costs. Then of course, that old ED>2400 baud modem is almost useless for browsing the web, so you get a 28.8, ED>and so on. ED>--- ED> þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Now this all makes more sense. By the way, why do you keep picking on my poor 2400 modem that I am using right now. Date: Tuesday, March 3, 1998 3:03pm Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 745044 To: Steve C Re: quoting (Reply to #745039, Reply to #744988, Reply to #744944, R*) (2 replies) SC>SF>AM>Computer prices are always falling (one week something could be like SC>SF>AM>$500.00- the next weeks it's only like $125.00) SC>SF>AM>A perfect example: those AWE64 cards- they were like $189.00 A little SC>SF>AM>while ago- now you can pretty much get one for $89.00 (maybe even SC>SF>AM>cheaper at A SHOW) SC>SF>So.....I keep asking how is a person suppose to know when is the time to SC>SF>buy and when to wait. SC>When a systen looks good and is within your price range. SC>Keep in mind though, that the prices you see are for systems that are SC>low end and will eventually be discontinued, so if you wait too long SC>they will not be available. SC> * OLX 2.1 TD * B Command to find what a BBS is about. And the very cheap systems are not really worth the investment. Date: Tuesday, March 3, 1998 6:52pm Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 745047 To: Steve Flur Re: quoting (Reply to #745009, Reply to #744999, Reply to #744989, R*) (1 reply) SF>VI>SF>Why would Win 98 cause the prices of computers to go up? SF>VI>I figure the reason why the prices are so low now is that the dealers SF>VI>are trying to dump their stock of computers loaded with Win 95. Once SF>VI>Win 98 comes out the existing systems will be out of date. SF>Sounds sort of logical, I think. I think Editor was more or less telling you the same thing. Date: Tuesday, March 3, 1998 6:55pm Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 745048 To: Editor Re: quoting (Reply to #745030, Reply to #744998, Reply to #744981, R*) (1 reply) ED>V >ED>Fairly common practice. But with PCs, I worry more about a failure ED>V >ED>backup, with the backed up data already half overwritten. That's a ED>V >ED>issue. You always should use alternating backups for critical data. ED>V > ED>V >Definitely obsessive. :) ED>Hey... dat's what I get paid for. During one meeting, in which the ED>customer proudly presented his recovery solution, I showed him a half dozen ED>ways that the recovery would lock up. He looked at me and asked if I wrote ED>Gothic horror novels in my spare time. Didn't you? :) ED>V >ED>Yes, but this doesn't save me the time. First, I would install NT4, ED>V >ED>two hours, then Borland C, Wordperfect 8, Visual C++, Quicken, ad n ED>V >ED>Not only would it take me forever, but I'd have to get all the defa ED>V >ED>up the way I want them at each step. Very labor intensive. If I had ED>V >ED>I'd probably restore NT, put in the tape, and go to sleep. ED>V > ED>V >And without the tape drive, what would you do? ED>First of all, I think we are confusing ZIP drives and Jazz drives. The Jazz ED>drives hold alot more. Upwards of a 1gig on each whatever. I'm going to ED>spend some time looking into it this afternoon. But the point I'm making is ED>that I'd love something where I start the backup and go to sleep, vs ED>changing diskettes every 10 minutes for two hours. ED>Right now, if my hard drive(s) fail, I have to install NT (about 2 hours), ED>install Borland C, Microsoft C, Wordperfect 8, Quicken, several more ED>programs, then start restoring data. It would pretty much be an all day ED>event, if not an all weekend event. UGH! Date: Tuesday, March 3, 1998 7:00pm Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 745049 To: Editor Re: quoting (Reply to #745034, Reply to #744999, Reply to #744989, R*) (2 replies) ED>V >SF>Why would Win 98 cause the prices of computers to go up? ED>V > ED>V >I figure the reason why the prices are so low now is that the dealers ED>V >are trying to dump their stock of computers loaded with Win 95. Once ED>V >Win 98 comes out the existing systems will be out of date. ED>V > ED>Its not W98, its the new chips. I think its the "old" Pentium that is being ED>pulled from production on April 15th. After that there will be no chips ED>produced that are slower than 250Mhz. The 300, 400 and 500Mhz boxes will ED>start arriving. If they don't get rid of their current stock, they won't be ED>able to give them away. I still can't figure out what to do with my 25Mhz ED>286. Its almost as bad now with the 386 and soon the 486. And if I understood your previous message to Steve Flur correctly you will need at least 250 Mhz to run Win 98 and its applications. Date: Tuesday, March 3, 1998 7:01pm Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 745050 To: Steve C Re: quoting (Reply to #745036, Reply to #745000, Reply to #744992, R*) (1 reply) SC>VI>SC>I think your motherboard is similar to mine. Mine was a 486sx/33mhz th SC>VI>SC>I upgraded to dx2/66mhz. SC>VI>SC>I think mine is upgradeable to 133mhz with one of those 5x86 conversio SC>VI>SC>chips. SC>VI>You got me beat. I have no idea how far I could push the baby I have. SC>Probably as far as mine, but with the way prices are falling, I think SC>I'll wait till after the baby is born, then buy a whole new system. Yes, I think it would be a generally good idea to avoid any major expense until after your baby is born, G*d willing. :) Date: Tuesday, March 3, 1998 7:04pm Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 745051 To: Steve C Re: quoting (Reply to #745040, Reply to #744999, Reply to #744989, R*) (1 reply) SC>VI>SF>Why would Win 98 cause the prices of computers to go up? SC>VI>I figure the reason why the prices are so low now is that the dealers SC>VI>are trying to dump their stock of computers loaded with Win 95. Once SC>VI>Win 98 comes out the existing systems will be out of date. SC>keep in mind that win 95 and win 98 are operating systems and can be SC>installed on any computer with the ability to run them. I understand that. I don't think I can run Win 95 on my existing system without upgrading. I only have 8 Mb. I think you need at least 16 to effectively run Win 95 apps. And if that's true of Win 95, I would assume Win 98 would require even more! SC>The reason the prices are low is that there is a new generation of SC>processers coming out that are between 300Mhz and 500Mhz, and will be SC>followed in about another 18 months with systems running around 1000Mhz. SC>They are lowering the prices on the lower powered Pentiuns to move them, SC>because once the new stuff becomes more reasonably priced, no one will SC>want the older stuff.(BTW a lot of this "older stuff" are actually SC>pretty good systems and will be capable of running win 98 when it is SC>released) Hmmm.... Date: Tuesday, March 3, 1998 9:24pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745058 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #744961, Reply to #744940, Reply to #744820, R*) (1 reply) Depends on your motherboard-- If your motherboard can't handle faster CPU's (ie: anything faster than 80x86 66mhz) then you would most likely have ta buy A new motherboard. But if your motherboard can handle 80x86 cpu's faster than 66mhz? I would go for A faster CPU ;-) (beats gettin A complete new computer) Hmmm, what do you have now? A 486dx-66mhz? (if so) you could throw A 80mhz 80486 cpu in there... Date: Tuesday, March 3, 1998 9:32pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745060 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #744963, Reply to #744943, Reply to #744871, R*) (1 reply) Depends on what you really want/need.. If you ask me.. all you really need is A decent 80x86 running at A decent speed.. with about 16 or more megs ram on the motherboard.. You have to ask yourself- what do you need? If your just into basic internet stuff? Then the main upgrade you could ever want (well really two) are 1. get more RAM (you can never have enuff RAM) ram is the most important upgrade (even more important that your CPU speed)- 2. (for internet stuff) A faster MODEM ;-) on the Internet- the only thing that really matters- is how much RAM you have & how fast your modem is ;-) I say- the average computer user would be happy with A 80586 100-133mhz with 16/32 megs ram... ONLY buy A SUPER FAST computer (if you plan on really using all of that speed) or esle - is just A waste of money! Date: Tuesday, March 3, 1998 9:35pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745062 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #744967, Reply to #744965, Reply to #744958, R*) (1 reply) ZIPS. You could buy one of those 2gig DITTO drive (well worth what they cost) and you can find they cheap at A show or used.. The best way to back your system up- is with A CD-ROM. CD-R's still cost A pretty penny- but they are also well worth the money plus you can cram! alot of info on those CD's... Date: Tuesday, March 3, 1998 9:45pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745063 To: Steve Flur Re: quoting (Reply to #744988, Reply to #744944, Reply to #744873, R*) (1 reply) It's always good ta wait! Never buy something the first week it comes out ;-) Wait A while.. (then once ethe prices go down) which they always do! then you go and buy.. (but even then) you have ta ask your self- do I really need this?? There really isnt annything (NEW) on the market right now... other than the craze over 300mhz computers (but so what) I mean the average computer user will never (never) know the diffrence in A 233 & A 300mhz computer! Plus if you have A 233mhz computer with 64megs ram (there is almost no reason for you to even think of such A little upgrade- as the 300mhz) I look at it like this: lets say you have A 486 computer? and you really would like to upgrade your system (to atleast) A low-endf pentium system.. What you would do is this- just go and buy your self A low-end pentium motherboard with the CPU! (figure anything from 100mhz - 133mhz pentium) then replace your 486 motherboard/cpu- with the Pentium motherboard/cpu for less than $200.00- you have yourself A nice pentium system... If you don't think you can upgrade the motherboard yourself? (just pay the guy at the computer shop A few extra bucks- and he'll do it for ya) I'm tellin ya- it beats the hell out of just buyin A complete NEW COMPUTER!! ;-) Date: Tuesday, March 3, 1998 9:47pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745064 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #744999, Reply to #744989, Reply to #744960, R*) VI>SF>Why would Win 98 cause the prices of computers to go up? VI>I figure the reason why the prices are so low now is that the dealers VI>are trying to dump their stock of computers loaded with Win 95. Once VI>Win 98 comes out the existing systems will be out of date. Well, sorta.. Win 98- won't really change much... Date: Tuesday, March 3, 1998 9:50pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745065 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #745000, Reply to #744992, Reply to #744961, R*) You really have ta find out what kind of computer you have- do you know the type of CPU atleast? (ie: is it A 486? 386? etc..) If your computer is A 486 (which it very well sounds like)- if it's 66mhz- most likely you have A 486dx-66 on your hands which can be upgraded (so I would look into it) if I were you ;-) s/s Date: Tuesday, March 3, 1998 9:52pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745066 To: Editor Re: quoting (Reply to #745030, Reply to #744998, Reply to #744981, R*) Sometimes when ya HARDDRIVE fails (it's not A major problem) ie: A while ago my HARDDRIVE when under (something screwed everything up) My HD would BOOT! (I right away assumed the worst)- come ta find out it was only my COMMAND.COM which was screwed up.. Date: Tuesday, March 3, 1998 9:54pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745067 To: Editor Re: quoting (Reply to #745033, Reply to #744989, Reply to #744960, R*) (1 reply) ED>SF>Why would Win 98 cause the prices of computers to go up? ED>Look at Windows 3.1 vs Windows 95. Windows 3.1 ran pretty well with 100mb ED>of disk and 4mb of RAM. The book says you can run W95 in 8mb, but you ED>better not be in a hurry. And 200mb is barely enough to load W95 and one ED>application. So your "minimal machine" jumped from a 33Mhz 386 with 4mb of ED>RAM and 200mb of disk to a minimum of a 75Mhz 496 with 16mb of RAM and a ED>1gb disk. Even with prices plunging, that costs. Then of course, that old ED>2400 baud modem is almost useless for browsing the web, so you get a 28.8, ED>and so on. ED>--- ED> þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy I would'nt say useless- as it would work (you just would'nt wanna use it) but I hear ya! ;-) Yeah, WIN 3.1 ran well on A 386-33 w/ 4megs.... WIN 95, is like A MONSTER (if ya ask me- it's over kill & slow) Date: Tuesday, March 3, 1998 9:58pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745068 To: Editor Re: quoting (Reply to #745034, Reply to #744999, Reply to #744989, R*) ED>V >SF>Why would Win 98 cause the prices of computers to go up? ED>V > ED>V >I figure the reason why the prices are so low now is that the dealers ED>V >are trying to dump their stock of computers loaded with Win 95. Once ED>V >Win 98 comes out the existing systems will be out of date. ED>V > ED>Its not W98, its the new chips. I think its the "old" Pentium that is being ED>pulled from production on April 15th. After that there will be no chips ED>produced that are slower than 250Mhz. The 300, 400 and 500Mhz boxes will ED>start arriving. If they don't get rid of their current stock, they won't be ED>able to give them away. I still can't figure out what to do with my 25Mhz ED>286. Its almost as bad now with the 386 and soon the 486. ED>--- ED> þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Well 286 is A 16bit computer (so you really can't do too much of anything with it) however it's still A good machine for running A BBS,Word processors,data bases etc..... On the other hand 386's & 486's are 32bit CPU's! (so aslong as you have enuff ram!!) those 386's & 486's will still be able ta hang out! The thing with 386's- is you have ta have atleast A DX, because the SX's are nothing more than suped up 286's... Date: Tuesday, March 3, 1998 10:00pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745069 To: Steve Flur Re: quoting (Reply to #745043, Reply to #745033, Reply to #744989, R*) (1 reply) SF>ED>SF>Why would Win 98 cause the prices of computers to go up? SF>ED>Look at Windows 3.1 vs Windows 95. Windows 3.1 ran pretty well with 100mb SF>ED>of disk and 4mb of RAM. The book says you can run W95 in 8mb, but you SF>ED>better not be in a hurry. And 200mb is barely enough to load W95 and one SF>ED>application. So your "minimal machine" jumped from a 33Mhz 386 with 4mb o SF>ED>RAM and 200mb of disk to a minimum of a 75Mhz 496 with 16mb of RAM and a SF>ED>1gb disk. Even with prices plunging, that costs. Then of course, that old SF>ED>2400 baud modem is almost useless for browsing the web, so you get a 28.8 SF>ED>and so on. SF>ED>--- SF>ED> þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy SF>Now this all makes more sense. By the way, why do you keep picking on my SF>poor 2400 modem that I am using right now. Heehehehehehehe, (tell him) ;-) Hey, I was still using my 1670 -1200bps modem on my Commodore 64 ;-) and I was using that baby on the NET ;-) (I just love using all of my computers) Date: Tuesday, March 3, 1998 10:04pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745070 To: Steve Flur Re: quoting (Reply to #745044, Reply to #745039, Reply to #744988, R*) (2 replies) SF>SC>SF>AM>Computer prices are always falling (one week something could be lik SF>SC>SF>AM>$500.00- the next weeks it's only like $125.00) SF>SC>SF>AM>A perfect example: those AWE64 cards- they were like $189.00 A litt SF>SC>SF>AM>while ago- now you can pretty much get one for $89.00 (maybe even SF>SC>SF>AM>cheaper at A SHOW) SF>SC>SF>So.....I keep asking how is a person suppose to know when is the time SF>SC>SF>buy and when to wait. SF>SC>When a systen looks good and is within your price range. SF>SC>Keep in mind though, that the prices you see are for systems that are SF>SC>low end and will eventually be discontinued, so if you wait too long SF>SC>they will not be available. SF>SC> * OLX 2.1 TD * B Command to find what a BBS is about. SF>And the very cheap systems are not really worth the investment. Depens on what kinda system (and what you plan on doing with it) Ie: the average COMPUTER buyer only wants ta access the internet.. so what more do they need? but atleast any ole 133mhz - 166mhz, with 16/32 megs ram-,56k modem (and thats all ya need) Then on the other hand if your A PROGRAMMER or TECH- who needs the latest 300mhz+ machines (well ofcourse you don't invest in old computers)- but the average computer user can't even format A DISK in DOS mode- so I doubt the average COMPUTER user will ever use that super FAST COMPUTER to the MAX... Date: Tuesday, March 3, 1998 10:07pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745071 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #745049, Reply to #745034, Reply to #744999, R*) (1 reply) VI>ED>V >SF>Why would Win 98 cause the prices of computers to go up? VI>ED>V > VI>ED>V >I figure the reason why the prices are so low now is that the dealers VI>ED>V >are trying to dump their stock of computers loaded with Win 95. Once VI>ED>V >Win 98 comes out the existing systems will be out of date. VI>ED>V > VI>ED>Its not W98, its the new chips. I think its the "old" Pentium that is bei VI>ED>pulled from production on April 15th. After that there will be no chips VI>ED>produced that are slower than 250Mhz. The 300, 400 and 500Mhz boxes will VI>ED>start arriving. If they don't get rid of their current stock, they won't VI>ED>able to give them away. I still can't figure out what to do with my 25Mhz VI>ED>286. Its almost as bad now with the 386 and soon the 486. VI>And if I understood your previous message to Steve Flur correctly you VI>will need at least 250 Mhz to run Win 98 and its applications. NO WAY! You can run Windows 98, you can run WIN 98, on any computer (which is able ta run 95) A 133mhz machine with 32megs ram will run 98, with no problems (except the basic problems which are in MS products) ie: BUGS or issues as they call them now... Date: Tuesday, March 3, 1998 10:16pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745072 To: Steve C Re: quoting (Reply to #745040, Reply to #744999, Reply to #744989, R*) (1 reply) SC>VI>SF>Why would Win 98 cause the prices of computers to go up? SC>VI>I figure the reason why the prices are so low now is that the dealers SC>VI>are trying to dump their stock of computers loaded with Win 95. Once SC>VI>Win 98 comes out the existing systems will be out of date. SC>keep in mind that win 95 and win 98 are operating systems and can be SC>installed on any computer with the ability to run them. SC>The reason the prices are low is that there is a new generation of SC>processers coming out that are between 300Mhz and 500Mhz, and will be SC>followed in about another 18 months with systems running around 1000Mhz. SC>They are lowering the prices on the lower powered Pentiuns to move them, SC>because once the new stuff becomes more reasonably priced, no one will SC>want the older stuff.(BTW a lot of this "older stuff" are actually SC>pretty good systems and will be capable of running win 98 when it is SC>released) SC> * OLX 2.1 TD * Robert A. Heinlein memorial tagline 8megs is enuff ta run WINDOWS 95, (enuff ta run it)- but WIN 95, is memory hungry!- so it runs better on machines with lotsa memory! 16megs is enuff ta get around on Windows 95 (32megs is even better) As for CPU's (Win95 will run on A 486 or higher)- however I would'nt try ta run WIN 95, on A 486 w/ 8megs ram (not that it won't work) If you really want ta run 95?- just buy A p-133 motherboard/cpu w/16 or 32megs ram... I look at it like this!- if you don't buy any NEW software? (then it won't matter if your running windows 95/98, or not) Date: Wednesday, March 4, 1998 12:33am Forum: Computing From: Conundrum Msg#: 745075 To: Steve Flur Re: PC Prices (Reply to #744836, Reply to #744824, Reply to #744673, F*) (2 replies) SF>CO>Given that said downward motion has existed for as long as computers, I SF>CO>suspect it will continue to exist as long as PCs still have improvements SF>CO>within sight. SF>So....when does one buy? You buy when what you want is in a range you can afford, of course. No later, 'cause then you won't get enough use out of it. No earlier, either, though, 'cause then you won't get what you want, or pay more than you want to for it. Date: Wednesday, March 4, 1998 12:43am Forum: Computing From: Conundrum Msg#: 745077 To: Amiga Re: quoting (Reply to #745070, Reply to #745044, Reply to #745039, R*) (2 replies) AM>Then on the other hand if your A PROGRAMMER or TECH- who needs the AM>latest 300mhz+ machines (well ofcourse you don't invest in old AM>computers)- but the average computer user can't even format A DISK in AM>DOS mode- so I doubt the average COMPUTER user will ever use that super AM>FAST COMPUTER to the MAX... Find me a programmer who thinks they NEED the lastest machines, and you've found one who can't tell the difference between "need" and "want". A graphics person? Sure. Even a reasercher, or someone else doing heavy number crunching. But while I'll take the fastest computer I can afford, I will never say I need something faster than that which will compile in reasonable time, run in reasonable time, and not make me wait for screen delays (which a 486 will do reasonably well with most systems, and a 166 will do well in all but the most bloated ones). Hell, I can do real work on a 386, as long as it's imbued with generous ram and drive space and a real operating system, though I'd rather work on something a bit faster, naturally. Date: Wednesday, March 4, 1998 6:29am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 745083 To: Amiga Re: quoting (Reply to #745058, Reply to #744961, Reply to #744940, R*) (1 reply) AM>Depends on your motherboard-- AM>If your motherboard can't handle faster CPU's (ie: anything faster than AM>80x86 66mhz) then you would most likely have ta buy A new motherboard. AM>But if your motherboard can handle 80x86 cpu's faster than 66mhz? AM>I would go for A faster CPU ;-) (beats gettin A complete new computer) AM>Hmmm, what do you have now? A 486dx-66mhz? (if so) you could throw A AM>80mhz 80486 cpu in there... I have a Pentium 66 mhz. Date: Wednesday, March 4, 1998 6:33am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 745084 To: Amiga Re: quoting (Reply to #745060, Reply to #744963, Reply to #744943, R*) (1 reply) AM>Depends on what you really want/need.. AM>If you ask me.. all you really need is A decent 80x86 running at A AM>decent speed.. with about 16 or more megs ram on the motherboard.. AM>You have to ask yourself- what do you need? AM>If your just into basic internet stuff? AM>Then the main upgrade you could ever want (well really two) are 1. get AM>more RAM (you can never have enuff RAM) ram is the most important AM>upgrade (even more important that your CPU speed)- 2. (for internet AM>stuff) A faster MODEM ;-) AM>on the Internet- the only thing that really matters- is how much RAM you AM>have & how fast your modem is ;-) AM>I say- the average computer user would be happy with A 80586 100-133mhz AM>with 16/32 megs ram... AM>ONLY buy A SUPER FAST computer (if you plan on really using all of that AM>speed) or esle - is just A waste of money! I really just use my computer to play on the internet. I was given a brandnew 56K modem for my birthday in January so I can't get any faster than that. But I definitely need to increase my RAM because I tried running Netscape 4 (aka Netscape Navigator) on my system and it just crawled to a dead stop. I also can't run any Java apps on my current system or any quick time videos, etc. so I have to do something. My main concern is once Win 98 comes out I figgure that there will be even more apps and plugins that I won't be able to run. :( Date: Wednesday, March 4, 1998 6:54am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 745085 To: Amiga Re: quoting (Reply to #745062, Reply to #744967, Reply to #744965, R*) (1 reply) AM>ZIPS. AM>You could buy one of those 2gig DITTO drive (well worth what they cost) AM>and you can find they cheap at A show or used.. AM>The best way to back your system up- is with A CD-ROM. AM>CD-R's still cost A pretty penny- but they are also well worth the money AM>plus you can cram! alot of info on those CD's... But first you need a recordable CD Rom drive. Which I don't have. I can play CD Roms but can't record them. Date: Wednesday, March 4, 1998 6:58am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 745086 To: Amiga Re: quoting (Reply to #745071, Reply to #745049, Reply to #745034, R*) AM>VI>ED>V >SF>Why would Win 98 cause the prices of computers to go up? AM>VI>ED>V > AM>VI>ED>V >I figure the reason why the prices are so low now is that the deale AM>VI>ED>V >are trying to dump their stock of computers loaded with Win 95. On AM>VI>ED>V >Win 98 comes out the existing systems will be out of date. AM>VI>ED>V > AM>VI>ED>Its not W98, its the new chips. I think its the "old" Pentium that is AM>VI>ED>pulled from production on April 15th. After that there will be no chip AM>VI>ED>produced that are slower than 250Mhz. The 300, 400 and 500Mhz boxes wi AM>VI>ED>start arriving. If they don't get rid of their current stock, they won AM>VI>ED>able to give them away. I still can't figure out what to do with my 25 AM>VI>ED>286. Its almost as bad now with the 386 and soon the 486. AM>VI>And if I understood your previous message to Steve Flur correctly you AM>VI>will need at least 250 Mhz to run Win 98 and its applications. AM>NO WAY! AM>You can run Windows 98, you can run WIN 98, on any computer (which is AM>able ta run 95) AM>A 133mhz machine with 32megs ram will run 98, with no problems (except AM>the basic problems which are in MS products) ie: BUGS or issues as they AM>call them now... We'll see. Remember I see a vast conspiracy in the comptuer industry regarding "planned obsolence". Date: Wednesday, March 4, 1998 11:38am Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 745094 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #745047, Reply to #745009, Reply to #744999, R*) (1 reply) VI>SF>VI>SF>Why would Win 98 cause the prices of computers to go up? VI>SF>VI>I figure the reason why the prices are so low now is that the dealers VI>SF>VI>are trying to dump their stock of computers loaded with Win 95. Once VI>SF>VI>Win 98 comes out the existing systems will be out of date. VI>SF>Sounds sort of logical, I think. VI>I think Editor was more or less telling you the same thing. Between the 2 of you I figured out your thought. Date: Wednesday, March 4, 1998 11:41am Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 745095 To: Amiga Re: quoting (Reply to #745063, Reply to #744988, Reply to #744944, R*) (1 reply) AM>It's always good ta wait! AM>Never buy something the first week it comes out ;-) AM>Wait A while.. (then once ethe prices go down) which they always do! AM>then you go and buy.. (but even then) you have ta ask your self- do I AM>really need this?? AM>There really isnt annything (NEW) on the market right now... AM>other than the craze over 300mhz computers (but so what) I mean the AM>average computer user will never (never) know the diffrence in A 233 & A AM>300mhz computer! AM>Plus if you have A 233mhz computer with 64megs ram (there is almost no AM>reason for you to even think of such A little upgrade- as the 300mhz) AM>I look at it like this: AM>lets say you have A 486 computer? AM>and you really would like to upgrade your system (to atleast) A low-endf AM>pentium system.. AM>What you would do is this- just go and buy your self A low-end pentium AM>motherboard with the CPU! (figure anything from 100mhz - 133mhz pentium) AM>then replace your 486 motherboard/cpu- with the Pentium motherboard/cpu AM>for less than $200.00- you have yourself A nice pentium system... AM>If you don't think you can upgrade the motherboard yourself? (just pay AM>the guy at the computer shop A few extra bucks- and he'll do it for ya) AM>I'm tellin ya- it beats the hell out of just buyin A complete NEW AM>COMPUTER!! ;-) Considering my present system is an Apple IIGS, upgrading is definitely NOT an option. Date: Wednesday, March 4, 1998 11:43am Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 745096 To: Amiga Re: quoting (Reply to #745069, Reply to #745043, Reply to #745033, R*) (1 reply) AM>SF>ED>SF>Why would Win 98 cause the prices of computers to go up? AM>SF>ED>Look at Windows 3.1 vs Windows 95. Windows 3.1 ran pretty well with 10 AM>SF>ED>of disk and 4mb of RAM. The book says you can run W95 in 8mb, but you AM>SF>ED>better not be in a hurry. And 200mb is barely enough to load W95 and o AM>SF>ED>application. So your "minimal machine" jumped from a 33Mhz 386 with 4m AM>SF>ED>RAM and 200mb of disk to a minimum of a 75Mhz 496 with 16mb of RAM and AM>SF>ED>1gb disk. Even with prices plunging, that costs. Then of course, that AM>SF>ED>2400 baud modem is almost useless for browsing the web, so you get a 2 AM>SF>ED>and so on. AM>SF>ED>--- AM>SF>ED> þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy AM>SF>Now this all makes more sense. By the way, why do you keep picking on my AM>SF>poor 2400 modem that I am using right now. AM>Heehehehehehehe, (tell him) ;-) AM>Hey, I was still using my 1670 -1200bps modem on my Commodore 64 ;-) AM>and I was using that baby on the NET ;-) (I just love using all of my AM>computers) My Apple IIGS had a very brief experience with AOL until they informed me that they would no longer support my system. Date: Wednesday, March 4, 1998 11:44am Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 745097 To: Amiga Re: quoting (Reply to #745070, Reply to #745044, Reply to #745039, R*) (1 reply) AM>SF>SC>SF>AM>Computer prices are always falling (one week something could be AM>SF>SC>SF>AM>$500.00- the next weeks it's only like $125.00) AM>SF>SC>SF>AM>A perfect example: those AWE64 cards- they were like $189.00 A l AM>SF>SC>SF>AM>while ago- now you can pretty much get one for $89.00 (maybe eve AM>SF>SC>SF>AM>cheaper at A SHOW) AM>SF>SC>SF>So.....I keep asking how is a person suppose to know when is the ti AM>SF>SC>SF>buy and when to wait. AM>SF>SC>When a systen looks good and is within your price range. AM>SF>SC>Keep in mind though, that the prices you see are for systems that are AM>SF>SC>low end and will eventually be discontinued, so if you wait too long AM>SF>SC>they will not be available. AM>SF>SC> * OLX 2.1 TD * B Command to find what a BBS is about. AM>SF>And the very cheap systems are not really worth the investment. AM>Depens on what kinda system (and what you plan on doing with it) AM>Ie: the average COMPUTER buyer only wants ta access the internet.. AM>so what more do they need? but atleast any ole 133mhz - 166mhz, with AM>16/32 megs ram-,56k modem (and thats all ya need) AM>Then on the other hand if your A PROGRAMMER or TECH- who needs the AM>latest 300mhz+ machines (well ofcourse you don't invest in old AM>computers)- but the average computer user can't even format A DISK in AM>DOS mode- so I doubt the average COMPUTER user will ever use that super AM>FAST COMPUTER to the MAX... AM> With all the advise I have been learning fast! Date: Wednesday, March 4, 1998 11:45am Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 745098 To: Conundrum Re: PC Prices (Reply to #745075, Reply to #744836, Reply to #744824, R*) (1 reply) CO>SF>CO>Given that said downward motion has existed for as long as computers, CO>SF>CO>suspect it will continue to exist as long as PCs still have improvemen CO>SF>CO>within sight. CO>SF>So....when does one buy? CO>You buy when what you want is in a range you can afford, of course. CO>No later, 'cause then you won't get enough use out of it. CO>No earlier, either, though, 'cause then you won't get what you want, or CO>pay more than you want to for it. Knowing that exact time you describe appears to be the trick. Date: Wednesday, March 4, 1998 1:22pm Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 745103 To: Steve Flur Re: quoting (Reply to #745043, Reply to #745033, Reply to #744989, R*) (2 replies) SF>ED>Look at Windows 3.1 vs Windows 95. Windows 3.1 ran pretty well with SF>ED>of disk and 4mb of RAM. The book says you can run W95 in 8mb, but y SF>ED>better not be in a hurry. And 200mb is barely enough to load W95 an SF>ED>application. So your "minimal machine" jumped from a 33Mhz 386 with SF>ED>RAM and 200mb of disk to a minimum of a 75Mhz 496 with 16mb of RAM SF>ED>1gb disk. Even with prices plunging, that costs. Then of course, th SF>ED>2400 baud modem is almost useless for browsing the web, so you get SF>ED>and so on. SF> SF>Now this all makes more sense. By the way, why do you keep picking on SF>poor 2400 modem that I am using right now. You obviously aren't using the web much are you. The 28.8/33.4 modems are teetering on the edge of obsolesence already. The 56kb stuff may be still born in favor of the newer faster stuff. You've got to understand that when I started in this business, 300 baud was "leading edge". --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Wednesday, March 4, 1998 1:22pm Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 745104 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #745048, Reply to #745030, Reply to #744998, R*) (1 reply) V >ED>Hey... dat's what I get paid for. During one meeting, in which the V >ED>customer proudly presented his recovery solution, I showed him a ha V >ED>ways that the recovery would lock up. He looked at me and asked if V >ED>Gothic horror novels in my spare time. V > V >Didn't you? :) Well.... maybe short ones. That calligraphy is murder on the wrists. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Wednesday, March 4, 1998 1:22pm Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 745105 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #745049, Reply to #745034, Reply to #744999, R*) (1 reply) V >ED>V >SF>Why would Win 98 cause the prices of computers to go up? V >ED>V > V >ED>V >I figure the reason why the prices are so low now is that the de V >ED>V >are trying to dump their stock of computers loaded with Win 95. V >ED>V >Win 98 comes out the existing systems will be out of date. V >ED>V > V > V >ED>Its not W98, its the new chips. I think its the "old" Pentium that V >ED>pulled from production on April 15th. After that there will be no c V >ED>produced that are slower than 250Mhz. The 300, 400 and 500Mhz boxes V >ED>start arriving. If they don't get rid of their current stock, they V >ED>able to give them away. I still can't figure out what to do with my V >ED>286. Its almost as bad now with the 386 and soon the 486. V > V >And if I understood your previous message to Steve Flur correctly you V >will need at least 250 Mhz to run Win 98 and its applications. I'm not sure about Win 98. After all, I do run Win95 on a 66 Mhz box that was obsolete before W95 came out. But I'll tell you this, I run WP7 on it, and its slow but acceptable. I wish I could run WP8 on it, but its too small and too slow for that. So the CPU speed all depends on what you use the box for. For example, speech recognition is coming big time. That's one CPU pig. This whole Microsoft integrated browser lawsuit is another portent. Forget for a moment that the truth is that the suit is more of a "dick size" contest between Gates and Justice. The reality is that the browsers is REALLY going to be part of the operating system. The difference between your computer and other computers will fade even further. Generality in software always costs CPU. So... it depends on what you need. I think buying anything slower than 200 Mhz is something you are going to regret. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Wednesday, March 4, 1998 1:22pm Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 745106 To: Amiga Re: quoting (Reply to #745067, Reply to #745033, Reply to #744989, R*) (1 reply) A >Yeah, WIN 3.1 ran well on A 386-33 w/ 4megs.... A > A >WIN 95, is like A MONSTER (if ya ask me- it's over kill & slow) Depends on your point of view. If you are not computer literate, all that integrated stuff, web, email, an so on is nice. Also, if you are truly doing lots of stuff, the 32 bit OS (meaning the preemptive redispatching) is a real boon. For example, I can start a large spell check in my word processor, and then switch to a terminal session and do other stuff while the spell check grinds. Try that under Win 3.1 with a couple of 16 bit apps and you may as well take a lunch break. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Wednesday, March 4, 1998 1:23pm Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 745109 To: Steve C Re: quoting (Reply to #745036, Reply to #745000, Reply to #744992, R*) (2 replies) SC>VI>SC>I think your motherboard is similar to mine. Mine was a 486sx/33 SC>VI>SC>I upgraded to dx2/66mhz. SC> SC>VI>SC>I think mine is upgradeable to 133mhz with one of those 5x86 con SC>VI>SC>chips. SC> SC>VI>You got me beat. I have no idea how far I could push the baby I ha SC> SC>Probably as far as mine, but with the way prices are falling, I think SC>I'll wait till after the baby is born, then buy a whole new system. Don't wait too long. This price collapse is being driven by the end of production on the 200 Mhz chips. By mid to end summer, supplies of computers with the "older" chips will dry up, and retailers will start gearing up for Christmas sales (Gawd... am really I talking about Christmas shopping in March!!!), and things will change. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Wednesday, March 4, 1998 1:23pm Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 745110 To: Conundrum Re: quoting (Reply to #745077, Reply to #745070, Reply to #745044, R*) C >AM>Then on the other hand if your A PROGRAMMER or TECH- who needs the C >AM>latest 300mhz+ machines (well ofcourse you don't invest in old C >AM>computers)- but the average computer user can't even format A DISK C >AM>DOS mode- so I doubt the average COMPUTER user will ever use that C >AM>FAST COMPUTER to the MAX... C >Find me a programmer who thinks they NEED the lastest machines, and C >you've found one who can't tell the difference between "need" and C >"want". I'm not sure I'd go that far. I recently switched from C to C++ and I went into shock at the compile times. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Wednesday, March 4, 1998 2:25pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745111 To: Conundrum Re: PC Prices (Reply to #745075, Reply to #744836, Reply to #744824, R*) CO>SF>CO>Given that said downward motion has existed for as long as computers, CO>SF>CO>suspect it will continue to exist as long as PCs still have improvemen CO>SF>CO>within sight. CO>SF>So....when does one buy? CO>You buy when what you want is in a range you can afford, of course. CO>No later, 'cause then you won't get enough use out of it. CO>No earlier, either, though, 'cause then you won't get what you want, or CO>pay more than you want to for it. If you really need something!! (you should always go out and get it right away) perfect example: I'm A Producer/Audio eng.- so when A new soundcard comes out (I HAVE TA GET IT) right away.. Date: Wednesday, March 4, 1998 2:29pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745112 To: Conundrum Re: quoting (Reply to #745077, Reply to #745070, Reply to #745044, R*) CO>AM>Then on the other hand if your A PROGRAMMER or TECH- who needs the CO>AM>latest 300mhz+ machines (well ofcourse you don't invest in old CO>AM>computers)- but the average computer user can't even format A DISK in CO>AM>DOS mode- so I doubt the average COMPUTER user will ever use that super CO>AM>FAST COMPUTER to the MAX... CO>Find me a programmer who thinks they NEED the lastest machines, and CO>you've found one who can't tell the difference between "need" and CO>"want". CO> A graphics person? Sure. CO> Even a reasercher, or someone else doing heavy number crunching. CO>But while I'll take the fastest computer I can afford, I will never say CO>I need something faster than that which will compile in reasonable time, CO>run in reasonable time, and not make me wait for screen delays (which a CO>486 will do reasonably well with most systems, and a 166 will do well in CO>all but the most bloated ones). CO> Hell, I can do real work on a 386, as long as it's imbued with CO>generous ram and drive space and a real operating system, though I'd CO>rather work on something a bit faster, naturally. No, don't get me wrong A programmer will be happy with just about any 32bit 80x86 machine (how ever) let's say your coding something like A emulator for example-- while you would be able ta code the program on A slow machine.. (when it comes ta testing your program) you will need A really fast machine.... I mean you have your basic programmers (and) you have your diehard programmers (guys doing all types of stuff which require super fast computers) But I agree- A programmer can code on any platform Date: Wednesday, March 4, 1998 2:30pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745113 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #745083, Reply to #745058, Reply to #744961, R*) (1 reply) VI>AM>Depends on your motherboard-- VI>AM>If your motherboard can't handle faster CPU's (ie: anything faster than VI>AM>80x86 66mhz) then you would most likely have ta buy A new motherboard. VI>AM>But if your motherboard can handle 80x86 cpu's faster than 66mhz? VI>AM>I would go for A faster CPU ;-) (beats gettin A complete new computer) VI>AM>Hmmm, what do you have now? A 486dx-66mhz? (if so) you could throw A VI>AM>80mhz 80486 cpu in there... VI>I have a Pentium 66 mhz. find out whats the highest (CPU) your motherboard supports.. Date: Wednesday, March 4, 1998 2:47pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745114 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #745084, Reply to #745060, Reply to #744963, R*) (1 reply) VI>AM>Depends on what you really want/need.. VI>AM>If you ask me.. all you really need is A decent 80x86 running at A VI>AM>decent speed.. with about 16 or more megs ram on the motherboard.. VI>AM>You have to ask yourself- what do you need? VI>AM>If your just into basic internet stuff? VI>AM>Then the main upgrade you could ever want (well really two) are 1. get VI>AM>more RAM (you can never have enuff RAM) ram is the most important VI>AM>upgrade (even more important that your CPU speed)- 2. (for internet VI>AM>stuff) A faster MODEM ;-) VI>AM>on the Internet- the only thing that really matters- is how much RAM you VI>AM>have & how fast your modem is ;-) VI>AM>I say- the average computer user would be happy with A 80586 100-133mhz VI>AM>with 16/32 megs ram... VI>AM>ONLY buy A SUPER FAST computer (if you plan on really using all of that VI>AM>speed) or esle - is just A waste of money! VI>I really just use my computer to play on the internet. I was given a VI>brandnew 56K modem for my birthday in January so I can't get any faster VI>than that. But I definitely need to increase my RAM because I tried VI>running Netscape 4 (aka Netscape Navigator) on my system and it just VI>crawled to a dead stop. I also can't run any Java apps on my current VI>system or any quick time videos, etc. so I have to do something. My VI>main concern is once Win 98 comes out I figgure that there will be even VI>more apps and plugins that I won't be able to run. :( Well A Pentium 66mhz w/ A 56k (is good enuff for the internet) (dependin on how much RAM you have)- (RAM & MODEM speed- these are the biggest factors on the NET)- you can have A pentium 233, but if ya only have A 2400 bps modem- you won't be very happy) Thats why I say- aslong as your CPU is at A decent speed (and ya have alot of ram & A fast modem)- your set (as far as the internet goes) As for windows 98? (why do you need it?) Hmmm, I noticed you said something about running (app's) java etc... Hmm, well what are you running now? (Win3.11)? ifso- then just upgrade ta Windows 95.. As for Windows 98 (TIME WILL TELL)- me I'm not upgrading ta WIN 98, (why)? because of right now-- I don't need it! everything I need (runs) on my current systems.. (and I don't see any new Audio Workstation software coming out- strickly for WIN 98) and since I use my computers for audio production (I see no reason for me ta make the upgrade) Tell ya the truth- I could get by on A 386dx33, if I had ta ;-) My systems right now are: Commodore 64 w/TMC 4.09mhz & 2meg REU,800k 1581 Amiga 500 w/1mb chip & 7megs fast,33mhz 68030,1gig HD Amiga 1200 w/2mb chip & 14megs fast,PPC/060 166mhz,2gig HD 80386 DX-33 w/8 megs ram,106meg HD Pentium 233mhz w/ 64megs,64bit gfx accel,2gig HD I use everyone of my systems (thats another reason why I don't need alot of small upgrades) ie: instead of overkill on one machine- I can do many tasks on each machine.. (ofcourse I'm not the average home computer user) Date: Wednesday, March 4, 1998 2:48pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745115 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #745085, Reply to #745062, Reply to #744967, R*) (1 reply) VI>AM>ZIPS. VI>AM>You could buy one of those 2gig DITTO drive (well worth what they cost) VI>AM>and you can find they cheap at A show or used.. VI>AM>The best way to back your system up- is with A CD-ROM. VI>AM>CD-R's still cost A pretty penny- but they are also well worth the money VI>AM>plus you can cram! alot of info on those CD's... VI>But first you need a recordable CD Rom drive. Which I don't have. I VI>can play CD Roms but can't record them. Buy A USED CD-R (you can't find A old IDE) for almost dirt cheap Date: Wednesday, March 4, 1998 2:58pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745116 To: Steve Flur Re: quoting (Reply to #745095, Reply to #745063, Reply to #744988, R*) (1 reply) Hey, if that APPLE IIgs does what you need (who cares!) I still use my Commodore 64! I mean it's not like you can't get on the INTERNET with these computers!!- I use ta use my Commodore 64, on the internet (everyday) Sure, no Graphical Web Browser (but so big deal)- (graphics won't stop me wrong gettin information)- I still could do Telnet,IRC,FTP,and even WWW via Lynx the (text-based) Web Browser. Aslong as your computer has A MODEM (I don't care how fast- 300bps to what ever) thats all that matters ;-) If your happy with your Apple IIgs? (then by all means continue ta use it) let me ask you- do you access the INTERNET from your "APPLE IIgs?" ifso great ;-) - if not? (leave me email) and I'll help you get your APPLE IIgs on the Internet ;-) Date: Wednesday, March 4, 1998 3:01pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745117 To: Steve Flur Re: quoting (Reply to #745096, Reply to #745069, Reply to #745043, R*) (1 reply) SF>AM>SF>ED>SF>Why would Win 98 cause the prices of computers to go up? SF>AM>SF>ED>Look at Windows 3.1 vs Windows 95. Windows 3.1 ran pretty well with SF>AM>SF>ED>of disk and 4mb of RAM. The book says you can run W95 in 8mb, but y SF>AM>SF>ED>better not be in a hurry. And 200mb is barely enough to load W95 an SF>AM>SF>ED>application. So your "minimal machine" jumped from a 33Mhz 386 with SF>AM>SF>ED>RAM and 200mb of disk to a minimum of a 75Mhz 496 with 16mb of RAM SF>AM>SF>ED>1gb disk. Even with prices plunging, that costs. Then of course, th SF>AM>SF>ED>2400 baud modem is almost useless for browsing the web, so you get SF>AM>SF>ED>and so on. SF>AM>SF>ED>--- SF>AM>SF>ED> þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy SF>AM>SF>Now this all makes more sense. By the way, why do you keep picking on SF>AM>SF>poor 2400 modem that I am using right now. SF>AM>Heehehehehehehe, (tell him) ;-) SF>AM>Hey, I was still using my 1670 -1200bps modem on my Commodore 64 ;-) SF>AM>and I was using that baby on the NET ;-) (I just love using all of my SF>AM>computers) SF>My Apple IIGS had a very brief experience with AOL until they informed SF>me that they would no longer support my system. Forget "AOL" (I hate them anyway) ALl you need is A NT server or UNIX/shell account... Date: Wednesday, March 4, 1998 3:02pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745118 To: Steve Flur Re: quoting (Reply to #745097, Reply to #745070, Reply to #745044, R*) (1 reply) SF>AM>SF>SC>SF>AM>Computer prices are always falling (one week something could SF>AM>SF>SC>SF>AM>$500.00- the next weeks it's only like $125.00) SF>AM>SF>SC>SF>AM>A perfect example: those AWE64 cards- they were like $189.00 SF>AM>SF>SC>SF>AM>while ago- now you can pretty much get one for $89.00 (maybe SF>AM>SF>SC>SF>AM>cheaper at A SHOW) SF>AM>SF>SC>SF>So.....I keep asking how is a person suppose to know when is the SF>AM>SF>SC>SF>buy and when to wait. SF>AM>SF>SC>When a systen looks good and is within your price range. SF>AM>SF>SC>Keep in mind though, that the prices you see are for systems that a SF>AM>SF>SC>low end and will eventually be discontinued, so if you wait too lon SF>AM>SF>SC>they will not be available. SF>AM>SF>SC> * OLX 2.1 TD * B Command to find what a BBS is about. SF>AM>SF>And the very cheap systems are not really worth the investment. SF>AM>Depens on what kinda system (and what you plan on doing with it) SF>AM>Ie: the average COMPUTER buyer only wants ta access the internet.. SF>AM>so what more do they need? but atleast any ole 133mhz - 166mhz, with SF>AM>16/32 megs ram-,56k modem (and thats all ya need) SF>AM>Then on the other hand if your A PROGRAMMER or TECH- who needs the SF>AM>latest 300mhz+ machines (well ofcourse you don't invest in old SF>AM>computers)- but the average computer user can't even format A DISK in SF>AM>DOS mode- so I doubt the average COMPUTER user will ever use that super SF>AM>FAST COMPUTER to the MAX... SF>AM> SF>With all the advise I have been learning fast! Thats what it's all about (informations) and good information.. I see so many people who give people "BAD" information Date: Wednesday, March 4, 1998 3:14pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745119 To: Steve Flur Re: PC Prices (Reply to #745098, Reply to #745075, Reply to #744836, R*) (1 reply) SF>CO>SF>CO>Given that said downward motion has existed for as long as computer SF>CO>SF>CO>suspect it will continue to exist as long as PCs still have improve SF>CO>SF>CO>within sight. SF>CO>SF>So....when does one buy? SF>CO>You buy when what you want is in a range you can afford, of course. SF>CO>No later, 'cause then you won't get enough use out of it. SF>CO>No earlier, either, though, 'cause then you won't get what you want, or SF>CO>pay more than you want to for it. SF>Knowing that exact time you describe appears to be the trick. Not really A trick- (but more) what do you NEED? lets say all you want to do is run A (GRAPHICAL WEB BROWSER) Well first- you find out whats the "min system" that can run A GFX web browser...? Well the "min system" that can handle A GFX WEB BROWSER (with ok speeds) I would say is: A 80386 with 8+ megs ram,A large HD, and A 56k modem So with that said- you figure any system faster than the above system is all you need (for your basic GRAPHIC INTERNET stuff) note: Computer upgrades arent for everyone!! (they never were for everyone) you upgrade your hardware ta keep up with the software you need ta run ;-) most people upgrade "just because" (which is stupid) Most people upgrade their hardware (but never buy software) which requires that hardware... (ie: you buy A 233 cpu) but you only buy software which runs fine on A 100mhz machine... hehehehe- I know guys who have 300mhz machines (and everytime I tell them that they could run the same software on A much slower machine) they get "MAD" ;-) Date: Wednesday, March 4, 1998 3:19pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745120 To: Editor Re: quoting (Reply to #745103, Reply to #745043, Reply to #745033, R*) ED>SF>ED>Look at Windows 3.1 vs Windows 95. Windows 3.1 ran pretty well with ED>SF>ED>of disk and 4mb of RAM. The book says you can run W95 in 8mb, but y ED>SF>ED>better not be in a hurry. And 200mb is barely enough to load W95 an ED>SF>ED>application. So your "minimal machine" jumped from a 33Mhz 386 with ED>SF>ED>RAM and 200mb of disk to a minimum of a 75Mhz 496 with 16mb of RAM ED>SF>ED>1gb disk. Even with prices plunging, that costs. Then of course, th ED>SF>ED>2400 baud modem is almost useless for browsing the web, so you get ED>SF>ED>and so on. ED>SF> ED>SF>Now this all makes more sense. By the way, why do you keep picking on ED>SF>poor 2400 modem that I am using right now. ED>You obviously aren't using the web much are you. The 28.8/33.4 modems are ED>teetering on the edge of obsolesence already. The 56kb stuff may be still ED>born in favor of the newer faster stuff. You've got to understand that when ED>I started in this business, 300 baud was "leading edge". ED>--- ED> þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Why could'nt he be using the WEB? A 2400 bps modem can get on the WEB (sure with A graphic web-browser) it would be very slow (but can still be done) Or he even could use the WEB withA 2400 bps modem via Lynx (the text based web browser) hey no GFX- but it's very FAST! even faster than A gfx webbrowser... Most people only want INFORMATION from the web (so it won't make A diffrence if ya have A GFX browser or A Text only web browser) Date: Wednesday, March 4, 1998 3:22pm Forum: Computing From: Steve C Msg#: 745122 To: Editor Re: quoting (Reply to #745028, Reply to #744993, Reply to #744965, R*) ED>I'm not sure if we were discussing the ZIP drives or the Jazz drives. The ED>Jazz drives look like a better bet. You are right about the 3GB. We were discussing Zip. I brought up the Jazz because it seems to offer the best of both types, IE: the capacity of a tape drive, and the quicker seek and access time of the Zip drive. * OLX 2.1 TD * Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot Date: Wednesday, March 4, 1998 3:22pm Forum: Computing From: Steve C Msg#: 745123 To: Editor Re: quoting (Reply to #745029, Reply to #744996, Reply to #744955, R*) ED>Probably. Its tough to beat those numbers. If you want to go the mother ED>board route, better to wait until the summer and see if the new 300Mhz+ ED>stuff is available as "mother boards". But still, a 300Mhz chip isn't worth ED>much unless the rest of the system is matched to it. True, all of my cards are ISA and VLB, while most newer motherboards tend to be PCI, USB, and AGP, so to replace my motherboard I might have to replace most of my cards along with it. * OLX 2.1 TD * How come pizza gets to your house faster than the police Date: Wednesday, March 4, 1998 3:22pm Forum: Computing From: Steve C Msg#: 745124 To: Steve Flur Re: quoting (Reply to #745044, Reply to #745039, Reply to #744988, R*) (2 replies) SF>SC>When a systen looks good and is within your price range. SF>SC>Keep in mind though, that the prices you see are for systems that are SF>SC>low end and will eventually be discontinued, so if you wait too long SF>SC>they will not be available. SF>And the very cheap systems are not really worth the investment. Well, if you really want to go bottom line, you can get an AST P100 with 16MB Ram, 1.2GB hard drive and a 4x CD-Rom for $399 from Micro Exchange (http://www.microexch.com), but then again that will only be good enough for BBS and light web surfing. * OLX 2.1 TD * Screw the Prime Directive. If it moves, shoot it Date: Wednesday, March 4, 1998 3:22pm Forum: Computing From: Steve C Msg#: 745125 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #745050, Reply to #745036, Reply to #745000, R*) (2 replies) VI>SC>Probably as far as mine, but with the way prices are falling, I think VI>SC>I'll wait till after the baby is born, then buy a whole new system. VI>Yes, I think it would be a generally good idea to avoid any major VI>expense until after your baby is born, G*d willing. :) True, the only expense I can see going for at this time is more Ram, which I found for about $80 for 16 meg. And if I change my service providor to Erols, I can save more than that in the first year so it might be a worthy tradeoff. * OLX 2.1 TD * Lead me not into temtation; I can find the way myself. Date: Wednesday, March 4, 1998 3:22pm Forum: Computing From: Steve C Msg#: 745126 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #745051, Reply to #745040, Reply to #744999, R*) (1 reply) VI>SC>keep in mind that win 95 and win 98 are operating systems and can be VI>SC>installed on any computer with the ability to run them. VI>I understand that. I don't think I can run Win 95 on my existing VI>system without upgrading. I only have 8 Mb. I think you need at least VI>16 to effectively run Win 95 apps. And if that's true of Win 95, I VI>would assume Win 98 would require even more! I believe you are currently running a pentium 66, right? You can probably upgrade the memory for a small price. (my puter takes 30 pin memory which is harder to obtain, and I found a place that has it for $20 for a 4MB chip, so for $80 I can put 16MB in it, plus leave the 4 1MB chips in the second bank for a total of 20MB) Yours should be even cheaper if you want to keep the puter without upgrading the processer. VI>SC>They are lowering the prices on the lower powered Pentiuns to move them, VI>SC>because once the new stuff becomes more reasonably priced, no one will VI>SC>want the older stuff.(BTW a lot of this "older stuff" are actually VI>SC>pretty good systems and will be capable of running win 98 when it is VI>SC>released) VI>Hmmm.... My sentiments exactly. If I didn't have more important things to worry about, I'd jump at one of those new systems. * OLX 2.1 TD * We are born naked, wet & hungry. Then things get worse Date: Wednesday, March 4, 1998 3:23pm Forum: Computing From: Steve C Msg#: 745128 To: Amiga Re: quoting (Reply to #745072, Reply to #745040, Reply to #744999, R*) (1 reply) AM>8megs is enuff ta run WINDOWS 95, (enuff ta run it)- but WIN 95, is AM>memory hungry!- so it runs better on machines with lotsa memory! AM>16megs is enuff ta get around on Windows 95 (32megs is even better) AM>As for CPU's (Win95 will run on A 486 or higher)- however I would'nt try AM>ta run WIN 95, on A 486 w/ 8megs ram (not that it won't work) Well my wife (Nightbird) is pregnant, so a complete overhaul will have to wait for a while. I'll probably just up my memory to 20MB for now and try to stay with win 3.1 untill I HAVE to go to win 95/98 AM>If you really want ta run 95?- just buy A p-133 motherboard/cpu w/16 AM>or 32megs ram... That is a possibility, but not in the forseeable future. AM>I look at it like this!- if you don't buy any NEW software? (then it AM>won't matter if your running windows 95/98, or not) Thats my way of looking at it for the present. If I can run all my app's in 3.1 I will :) * OLX 2.1 TD * What if the Honey Pokey really IS what's it's all about? Date: Wednesday, March 4, 1998 3:23pm Forum: Computing From: Steve C Msg#: 745130 To: Steve Flur Re: quoting (Reply to #745043, Reply to #745033, Reply to #744989, R*) (2 replies) SF>Now this all makes more sense. By the way, why do you keep picking on my SF>poor 2400 modem that I am using right now. Because, while a 2400 is good enough for BBS's, E_Mail and news lists, web surfing usually offers rich graphics that will either be unavailable to you or take a long time to load.(even with my 14.4 some pages seem to take forever to load.) Not to fear though, If you are looking into a new system, most come with at least a 28.8 modem and if not they are pretty reasonably priced. * OLX 2.1 TD * Pardon Me, But Would You Have Any Blue Poupon? Date: Wednesday, March 4, 1998 3:24pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745131 To: Editor Re: quoting (Reply to #745106, Reply to #745067, Reply to #745033, R*) ED>A >Yeah, WIN 3.1 ran well on A 386-33 w/ 4megs.... ED>A > ED>A >WIN 95, is like A MONSTER (if ya ask me- it's over kill & slow) ED>Depends on your point of view. If you are not computer literate, all that ED>integrated stuff, web, email, an so on is nice. Also, if you are truly ED>doing lots of stuff, the 32 bit OS (meaning the preemptive redispatching) ED>is a real boon. For example, I can start a large spell check in my word ED>processor, and then switch to a terminal session and do other stuff while ED>the spell check grinds. Try that under Win 3.1 with a couple of 16 bit apps ED>and you may as well take a lunch break. ED>--- ED> þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy hehehehe, thats funny ;-) - because that kinda stuff has always been done on the AMIGA computers (which always have had the multi-tasking feature) on an AMIGA computer.. you could run A word processor, A terminal program, A Web Browser, and Play A game all at the same time So I guess thats one of the reasons why I don't see the BIG deal- in PC's just startin to do this kinda stuff ;-) Date: Wednesday, March 4, 1998 3:27pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745132 To: Editor Re: quoting (Reply to #745109, Reply to #745036, Reply to #745000, R*) ED>SC>VI>SC>I think your motherboard is similar to mine. Mine was a 486sx/33 ED>SC>VI>SC>I upgraded to dx2/66mhz. ED>SC> ED>SC>VI>SC>I think mine is upgradeable to 133mhz with one of those 5x86 con ED>SC>VI>SC>chips. ED>SC> ED>SC>VI>You got me beat. I have no idea how far I could push the baby I ha ED>SC> ED>SC>Probably as far as mine, but with the way prices are falling, I think ED>SC>I'll wait till after the baby is born, then buy a whole new system. ED>Don't wait too long. This price collapse is being driven by the end of ED>production on the 200 Mhz chips. By mid to end summer, supplies of ED>computers with the "older" chips will dry up, and retailers will start ED>gearing up for Christmas sales (Gawd... am really I talking about Christmas ED>shopping in March!!!), and things will change. ED>--- ED> þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Don't forget the "USED" market!! (thats the backbone!) right now you could get A Pentium 200mhz (mobo & cpu) for about $200.00 Date: Wednesday, March 4, 1998 3:32pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745133 To: Steve C Re: quoting (Reply to #745124, Reply to #745044, Reply to #745039, R*) (1 reply) SC>SF>SC>When a systen looks good and is within your price range. SC>SF>SC>Keep in mind though, that the prices you see are for systems that are SC>SF>SC>low end and will eventually be discontinued, so if you wait too long SC>SF>SC>they will not be available. SC>SF>And the very cheap systems are not really worth the investment. SC>Well, if you really want to go bottom line, you can get an AST P100 with SC>16MB Ram, 1.2GB hard drive and a 4x CD-Rom for $399 from Micro Exchange SC>(http://www.microexch.com), but then again that will only be good enough SC>for BBS and light web surfing. SC> * OLX 2.1 TD * Screw the Prime Directive. If it moves, shoot it And even thats over priced! (I'd sell one of my old boards with A 166mhz cpu) for $150 / $175 Date: Wednesday, March 4, 1998 3:37pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745134 To: Steve C Re: quoting (Reply to #745125, Reply to #745050, Reply to #745036, R*) (1 reply) SC>VI>SC>Probably as far as mine, but with the way prices are falling, I think SC>VI>SC>I'll wait till after the baby is born, then buy a whole new system. SC>VI>Yes, I think it would be a generally good idea to avoid any major SC>VI>expense until after your baby is born, G*d willing. :) SC>True, the only expense I can see going for at this time is more Ram, SC>which I found for about $80 for 16 meg. And if I change my service SC>providor to Erols, I can save more than that in the first year so it SC>might be a worthy tradeoff. SC> * OLX 2.1 TD * Lead me not into temtation; I can find the way myself. You gotta start looking on the USED-market (16meg simm) for $35.00 When it comes ta most computer parts (used or brand new) won't make A diffence (because you'll most likely upgrade the hardware before it's time anyway) ;-) I always buy "RAM,Motherboards,CPU's" on the used market (ie: used or at some computer show)- far--far- cheaper than at some store (and most stores sell used stuff as NEW) (the average - even some pro computer users never know when there gettin something new or used) unless you only deal with "WHOLESALE DEALERS / Computer dealers" who always have fresh out of the box HARDWARE ;-) Date: Wednesday, March 4, 1998 3:40pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745135 To: Steve C Re: quoting (Reply to #745128, Reply to #745072, Reply to #745040, R*) (1 reply) SC>AM>8megs is enuff ta run WINDOWS 95, (enuff ta run it)- but WIN 95, is SC>AM>memory hungry!- so it runs better on machines with lotsa memory! SC>AM>16megs is enuff ta get around on Windows 95 (32megs is even better) SC>AM>As for CPU's (Win95 will run on A 486 or higher)- however I would'nt try SC>AM>ta run WIN 95, on A 486 w/ 8megs ram (not that it won't work) SC>Well my wife (Nightbird) is pregnant, so a complete overhaul will have SC>to wait for a while. I'll probably just up my memory to 20MB for now and SC>try to stay with win 3.1 untill I HAVE to go to win 95/98 SC>AM>If you really want ta run 95?- just buy A p-133 motherboard/cpu w/16 SC>AM>or 32megs ram... SC>That is a possibility, but not in the forseeable future. SC>AM>I look at it like this!- if you don't buy any NEW software? (then it SC>AM>won't matter if your running windows 95/98, or not) SC>Thats my way of looking at it for the present. If I can run all my app's SC>in 3.1 I will :) SC> * OLX 2.1 TD * What if the Honey Pokey really IS what's it's all about? Yup, thats all that matters ;-) It makes no sense upgrading to 95 or 98, if you don't plan on buyin any new software... (I just like you..) all my stuff runs on '95- so I doubt I'm gonna need '98, (tell ya the truth- most stuff runs on Win 3.11) Date: Wednesday, March 4, 1998 3:43pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745136 To: Steve C Re: quoting (Reply to #745130, Reply to #745043, Reply to #745033, R*) (1 reply) SC>SF>Now this all makes more sense. By the way, why do you keep picking on my SC>SF>poor 2400 modem that I am using right now. SC>Because, while a 2400 is good enough for BBS's, E_Mail and news lists, SC>web surfing usually offers rich graphics that will either be unavailable SC>to you or take a long time to load.(even with my 14.4 some pages SC>seem to take forever to load.) SC>Not to fear though, If you are looking into a new system, most come with SC>at least a 28.8 modem and if not they are pretty reasonably priced. SC> * OLX 2.1 TD * Pardon Me, But Would You Have Any Blue Poupon? Then just use LYNX A text based web browser (same web, same information) Or even- A gfx web browser.. while your waitin (20 years) for A page ta load with that 2400bps modem- you could 1. Telnet to A system, 2. Join A chat channel on IRC. etc,.. Sure I agree- that you would go nuts waitin for pages on A 2400bps modem (but if thats all you have) hey ya can't knock it ;-) Date: Thursday, March 5, 1998 6:47am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 745141 To: Steve Flur Re: quoting (Reply to #745094, Reply to #745047, Reply to #745009, R*) (1 reply) SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>Why would Win 98 cause the prices of computers to go up? SF>VI>SF>VI>I figure the reason why the prices are so low now is that the deale SF>VI>SF>VI>are trying to dump their stock of computers loaded with Win 95. On SF>VI>SF>VI>Win 98 comes out the existing systems will be out of date. SF>VI>SF>Sounds sort of logical, I think. SF>VI>I think Editor was more or less telling you the same thing. SF>Between the 2 of you I figured out your thought. I'm sure Editor deserves more of the credit. He is much clearer than I on this issue. :) Date: Thursday, March 5, 1998 6:48am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 745142 To: Editor Re: quoting (Reply to #745104, Reply to #745048, Reply to #745030, R*) ED>V >ED>Hey... dat's what I get paid for. During one meeting, in which the ED>V >ED>customer proudly presented his recovery solution, I showed him a ha ED>V >ED>ways that the recovery would lock up. He looked at me and asked if ED>V >ED>Gothic horror novels in my spare time. ED>V > ED>V >Didn't you? :) ED>Well.... maybe short ones. That calligraphy is murder on the wrists. Or some other kind of murder. :) ED>--- ED> þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Thursday, March 5, 1998 6:51am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 745143 To: Editor Re: quoting (Reply to #745105, Reply to #745049, Reply to #745034, R*) (1 reply) ED>V >ED>V >SF>Why would Win 98 cause the prices of computers to go up? ED>V >ED>V > ED>V >ED>V >I figure the reason why the prices are so low now is that the de ED>V >ED>V >are trying to dump their stock of computers loaded with Win 95. ED>V >ED>V >Win 98 comes out the existing systems will be out of date. ED>V >ED>V > ED>V > ED>V >ED>Its not W98, its the new chips. I think its the "old" Pentium that ED>V >ED>pulled from production on April 15th. After that there will be no c ED>V >ED>produced that are slower than 250Mhz. The 300, 400 and 500Mhz boxes ED>V >ED>start arriving. If they don't get rid of their current stock, they ED>V >ED>able to give them away. I still can't figure out what to do with my ED>V >ED>286. Its almost as bad now with the 386 and soon the 486. ED>V > ED>V >And if I understood your previous message to Steve Flur correctly you ED>V >will need at least 250 Mhz to run Win 98 and its applications. ED>I'm not sure about Win 98. After all, I do run Win95 on a 66 Mhz box that ED>was obsolete before W95 came out. But I'll tell you this, I run WP7 on it, ED>and its slow but acceptable. I wish I could run WP8 on it, but its too ED>small and too slow for that. So the CPU speed all depends on what you use ED>the box for. For example, speech recognition is coming big time. That's one ED>CPU pig. This whole Microsoft integrated browser lawsuit is another ED>portent. Forget for a moment that the truth is that the suit is more of a ED>"dick size" contest between Gates and Justice. The reality is that the ED>browsers is REALLY going to be part of the operating system. The difference ED>between your computer and other computers will fade even further. ED>Generality in software always costs CPU. A lawyer friend of mine just bought a new computer with Speech recognition technology. She's a solo practioner and thought that in the long run it would be more cost efficient than having to pay for a secretary. ED>So... it depends on what you need. I think buying anything slower than 200 ED>Mhz is something you are going to regret. Or for that matter, it doesn't pay to upgrade your system unless you upgrade to at least 200 Mhz and 32 RAM, right? Date: Thursday, March 5, 1998 6:54am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 745144 To: Amiga Re: quoting (Reply to #745113, Reply to #745083, Reply to #745058, R*) (1 reply) AM>VI>I have a Pentium 66 mhz. AM>find out whats the highest (CPU) your motherboard supports.. You mean dig out my documentation for my computer? :) Date: Thursday, March 5, 1998 6:57am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 745145 To: Amiga Re: quoting (Reply to #745114, Reply to #745084, Reply to #745060, R*) (2 replies) AM>VI>AM>Depends on what you really want/need.. AM>VI>AM>If you ask me.. all you really need is A decent 80x86 running at A AM>VI>AM>decent speed.. with about 16 or more megs ram on the motherboard.. AM>VI>AM>You have to ask yourself- what do you need? AM>VI>AM>If your just into basic internet stuff? AM>VI>AM>Then the main upgrade you could ever want (well really two) are 1. get AM>VI>AM>more RAM (you can never have enuff RAM) ram is the most important AM>VI>AM>upgrade (even more important that your CPU speed)- 2. (for internet AM>VI>AM>stuff) A faster MODEM ;-) AM>VI>AM>on the Internet- the only thing that really matters- is how much RAM y AM>VI>AM>have & how fast your modem is ;-) AM>VI>AM>I say- the average computer user would be happy with A 80586 100-133mh AM>VI>AM>with 16/32 megs ram... AM>VI>AM>ONLY buy A SUPER FAST computer (if you plan on really using all of tha AM>VI>AM>speed) or esle - is just A waste of money! AM>VI>I really just use my computer to play on the internet. I was given a AM>VI>brandnew 56K modem for my birthday in January so I can't get any faster AM>VI>than that. But I definitely need to increase my RAM because I tried AM>VI>running Netscape 4 (aka Netscape Navigator) on my system and it just AM>VI>crawled to a dead stop. I also can't run any Java apps on my current AM>VI>system or any quick time videos, etc. so I have to do something. My AM>VI>main concern is once Win 98 comes out I figgure that there will be even AM>VI>more apps and plugins that I won't be able to run. :( AM>Well A Pentium 66mhz w/ A 56k (is good enuff for the internet) AM>(dependin on how much RAM you have)- (RAM & MODEM speed- these are the AM>biggest factors on the NET)- you can have A pentium 233, but if ya only AM>have A 2400 bps modem- you won't be very happy) AM>Thats why I say- aslong as your CPU is at A decent speed (and ya have AM>alot of ram & A fast modem)- your set (as far as the internet goes) AM>As for windows 98? (why do you need it?) AM>Hmmm, I noticed you said something about running (app's) java etc... AM>Hmm, well what are you running now? (Win3.11)? ifso- then just upgrade AM>ta Windows 95.. AM>As for Windows 98 (TIME WILL TELL)- me I'm not upgrading ta WIN 98, AM>(why)? because of right now-- I don't need it! AM>everything I need (runs) on my current systems.. (and I don't see any AM>new Audio Workstation software coming out- strickly for WIN 98) and AM>since I use my computers for audio production (I see no reason for me ta AM>make the upgrade) AM>Tell ya the truth- I could get by on A 386dx33, if I had ta ;-) AM>My systems right now are: AM>Commodore 64 w/TMC 4.09mhz & 2meg REU,800k 1581 AM>Amiga 500 w/1mb chip & 7megs fast,33mhz 68030,1gig HD AM>Amiga 1200 w/2mb chip & 14megs fast,PPC/060 166mhz,2gig HD AM>80386 DX-33 w/8 megs ram,106meg HD AM>Pentium 233mhz w/ 64megs,64bit gfx accel,2gig HD AM>I use everyone of my systems (thats another reason why I don't need alot AM>of small upgrades) ie: instead of overkill on one machine- I can do many AM>tasks on each machine.. (ofcourse I'm not the average home computer AM>user) I have Win 3.1. I never bothered to upgrade to Win 95 because I thought to myself "Why do I need it?". But now I find I can't run some of the cool toys on the internet, which is why I need to be able to run Java aps. I figure once Win 98 comes out they will develope even more toys on the net that I won't be able to run, and by that time I will feel really deprived. :) Date: Thursday, March 5, 1998 6:58am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 745146 To: Amiga Re: quoting (Reply to #745115, Reply to #745085, Reply to #745062, R*) (1 reply) AM>VI>AM>ZIPS. AM>VI>AM>You could buy one of those 2gig DITTO drive (well worth what they cost AM>VI>AM>and you can find they cheap at A show or used.. AM>VI>AM>The best way to back your system up- is with A CD-ROM. AM>VI>AM>CD-R's still cost A pretty penny- but they are also well worth the mon AM>VI>AM>plus you can cram! alot of info on those CD's... AM>VI>But first you need a recordable CD Rom drive. Which I don't have. I AM>VI>can play CD Roms but can't record them. AM>Buy A USED CD-R (you can't find A old IDE) for almost dirt cheap Are there any of those on the market already? I thought CD-R technology was so new that you could not find a used CD-R drive on the market. Date: Thursday, March 5, 1998 7:00am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 745147 To: Steve C Re: quoting (Reply to #745125, Reply to #745050, Reply to #745036, R*) (2 replies) SC>VI>SC>Probably as far as mine, but with the way prices are falling, I think SC>VI>SC>I'll wait till after the baby is born, then buy a whole new system. SC>VI>Yes, I think it would be a generally good idea to avoid any major SC>VI>expense until after your baby is born, G*d willing. :) SC>True, the only expense I can see going for at this time is more Ram, SC>which I found for about $80 for 16 meg. And if I change my service SC>providor to Erols, I can save more than that in the first year so it SC>might be a worthy tradeoff. I would suggest going for even higher than 16 meg. I think some of the new programs are really hogs and that they need a lot of ump to run them properly. Date: Thursday, March 5, 1998 7:01am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 745148 To: Steve C Re: quoting (Reply to #745126, Reply to #745051, Reply to #745040, R*) (2 replies) SC>VI>SC>keep in mind that win 95 and win 98 are operating systems and can be SC>VI>SC>installed on any computer with the ability to run them. SC>VI>I understand that. I don't think I can run Win 95 on my existing SC>VI>system without upgrading. I only have 8 Mb. I think you need at least SC>VI>16 to effectively run Win 95 apps. And if that's true of Win 95, I SC>VI>would assume Win 98 would require even more! SC>I believe you are currently running a pentium 66, right? SC>You can probably upgrade the memory for a small price. (my puter takes SC>30 pin memory which is harder to obtain, and I found a place that has it SC>for $20 for a 4MB chip, so for $80 I can put 16MB in it, plus leave the SC>4 1MB chips in the second bank for a total of 20MB) SC>Yours should be even cheaper if you want to keep the puter without SC>upgrading the processer. SC>VI>SC>They are lowering the prices on the lower powered Pentiuns to move the SC>VI>SC>because once the new stuff becomes more reasonably priced, no one will SC>VI>SC>want the older stuff.(BTW a lot of this "older stuff" are actually SC>VI>SC>pretty good systems and will be capable of running win 98 when it is SC>VI>SC>released) SC>VI>Hmmm.... SC>My sentiments exactly. If I didn't have more important things to worry SC>about, I'd jump at one of those new systems. Like Tevye used to say..."If I was a rich man...." :) Date: Thursday, March 5, 1998 10:01am Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 745153 To: Editor Re: quoting (Reply to #745103, Reply to #745043, Reply to #745033, R*) (2 replies) ED>SF>ED>Look at Windows 3.1 vs Windows 95. Windows 3.1 ran pretty well with ED>SF>ED>of disk and 4mb of RAM. The book says you can run W95 in 8mb, but y ED>SF>ED>better not be in a hurry. And 200mb is barely enough to load W95 an ED>SF>ED>application. So your "minimal machine" jumped from a 33Mhz 386 with ED>SF>ED>RAM and 200mb of disk to a minimum of a 75Mhz 496 with 16mb of RAM ED>SF>ED>1gb disk. Even with prices plunging, that costs. Then of course, th ED>SF>ED>2400 baud modem is almost useless for browsing the web, so you get ED>SF>ED>and so on. ED>SF> ED>SF>Now this all makes more sense. By the way, why do you keep picking on ED>SF>poor 2400 modem that I am using right now. ED>You obviously aren't using the web much are you. The 28.8/33.4 modems are ED>teetering on the edge of obsolesence already. The 56kb stuff may be still ED>born in favor of the newer faster stuff. You've got to understand that when ED>I started in this business, 300 baud was "leading edge". ED>--- ED> þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy I was not being serious. I am fully aware that my present system, although "top of the line" for Apple at the time of purchase was shortly thereafter abandoned by Apple and was never designed to interact with today's technology. Date: Thursday, March 5, 1998 10:43am Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 745155 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #745143, Reply to #745105, Reply to #745049, R*) (2 replies) V >ED>I'm not sure about Win 98. After all, I do run Win95 on a 66 Mhz bo V >ED>was obsolete before W95 came out. But I'll tell you this, I run WP7 V >ED>and its slow but acceptable. I wish I could run WP8 on it, but its V >ED>small and too slow for that. So the CPU speed all depends on what y V >ED>the box for. For example, speech recognition is coming big time. Th V >ED>CPU pig. This whole Microsoft integrated browser lawsuit is another V >ED>portent. Forget for a moment that the truth is that the suit is mor V >ED>"dick size" contest between Gates and Justice. The reality is that V >ED>browsers is REALLY going to be part of the operating system. The di V >ED>between your computer and other computers will fade even further. V >ED>Generality in software always costs CPU. V > V >A lawyer friend of mine just bought a new computer with Speech V >recognition technology. She's a solo practioner and thought that in V >the long run it would be more cost efficient than having to pay for a V >secretary. Its still pretty new, but its there. You'll see more of it every day. Like I said, it really eats CPU, especially if its speaker independent recognition. But the current crop of stuff we are seeing is speaker dependent variety, meaning it only guarentees accuracy for the one person it trained with. I hear those are doing pretty well. V >ED>So... it depends on what you need. I think buying anything slower t V >ED>Mhz is something you are going to regret. V > V >Or for that matter, it doesn't pay to upgrade your system unless you V >upgrade to at least 200 Mhz and 32 RAM, right? Yup... but with the prices I'm seeing, that may not be worth it either. I just got an email ad from one of those I call a "clone clone" operation. $700 for a 200Mhz, CD ROM, 32mb RAM, 3 gig disk, modem and W95 loaded. Just about everything but a keyboard and monitor. You've got to wonder about this, given that the modem has got to cost $100 and the disk has to cost $200+. If you've got the stomach for putting up with the idiosynchrasies of such a patchwork quilt its a good price. But I'd rather be USING the machine than fine tuning it. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Thursday, March 5, 1998 10:44am Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 745158 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #745145, Reply to #745114, Reply to #745084, R*) (2 replies) V >I have Win 3.1. I never bothered to upgrade to Win 95 because I V >thought to myself "Why do I need it?". But now I find I can't run som V >of the cool toys on the internet, which is why I need to be able to ru V >Java aps. I figure once Win 98 comes out they will develope even more V >toys on the net that I won't be able to run, and by that time I will V >feel really deprived. :) I don't think we are going to see as dramatic a jump again. Win 3.1 was amazing. It was based on DOS, which was based on CPM which was developed in the 70s!!!!! W95 was really the first fundamental change in operating systems since the PC came out. I'm not sure what the intentions are for W98. More is being written about NT5, which is more of a corporate platform, than W98. But NT5 is so far behind schedule, that the talk is that MS will be trying to make W98 more attractive to corporate users. What this might mean to the consumer marketplace is beyond me. I suspect it will be more a case of faster and better than any of the dramatic functional changes we saw in W95. But again, I could be wrong. Its Mr. Gates who lives in the big house on the West Coast, I just have my modest row house in Queens. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Thursday, March 5, 1998 11:09am Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 745159 To: Amiga Re: quoting (Reply to #745116, Reply to #745095, Reply to #745063, R*) AM>Hey, if that APPLE IIgs does what you need (who cares!) AM>I still use my Commodore 64! AM>I mean it's not like you can't get on the INTERNET with these AM>computers!!- I use ta use my Commodore 64, on the internet (everyday) AM>Sure, no Graphical Web Browser (but so big deal)- (graphics won't stop AM>me wrong gettin information)- I still could do Telnet,IRC,FTP,and even AM>WWW via Lynx the (text-based) Web Browser. AM>Aslong as your computer has A MODEM (I don't care how fast- 300bps to AM>what ever) thats all that matters ;-) AM>If your happy with your Apple IIgs? (then by all means continue ta use AM>it) AM>let me ask you- do you access the INTERNET from your "APPLE IIgs?" AM>ifso great ;-) - if not? (leave me email) and I'll help you AM>get your APPLE IIgs on the Internet ;-) I have not attempted true internet activities. My system has a 2400 modem, 256K ROM, 3Meg RAM, operating at 2.8 Mhtz. Any suggestions would be appreciated. And no harddrive! Date: Thursday, March 5, 1998 11:10am Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 745160 To: Amiga Re: quoting (Reply to #745117, Reply to #745096, Reply to #745069, R*) (1 reply) AM>SF>AM>SF>ED>SF>Why would Win 98 cause the prices of computers to go up? AM>SF>AM>SF>ED>Look at Windows 3.1 vs Windows 95. Windows 3.1 ran pretty well w AM>SF>AM>SF>ED>of disk and 4mb of RAM. The book says you can run W95 in 8mb, bu AM>SF>AM>SF>ED>better not be in a hurry. And 200mb is barely enough to load W95 AM>SF>AM>SF>ED>application. So your "minimal machine" jumped from a 33Mhz 386 w AM>SF>AM>SF>ED>RAM and 200mb of disk to a minimum of a 75Mhz 496 with 16mb of R AM>SF>AM>SF>ED>1gb disk. Even with prices plunging, that costs. Then of course, AM>SF>AM>SF>ED>2400 baud modem is almost useless for browsing the web, so you g AM>SF>AM>SF>ED>and so on. AM>SF>AM>SF>ED>--- AM>SF>AM>SF>ED> þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy AM>SF>AM>SF>Now this all makes more sense. By the way, why do you keep picking AM>SF>AM>SF>poor 2400 modem that I am using right now. AM>SF>AM>Heehehehehehehe, (tell him) ;-) AM>SF>AM>Hey, I was still using my 1670 -1200bps modem on my Commodore 64 ;-) AM>SF>AM>and I was using that baby on the NET ;-) (I just love using all of my AM>SF>AM>computers) AM>SF>My Apple IIGS had a very brief experience with AOL until they informed AM>SF>me that they would no longer support my system. AM>Forget "AOL" (I hate them anyway) AM>ALl you need is A NT server or UNIX/shell account... Any suggestions about who or what can accomadate my system would be welcomed. Date: Thursday, March 5, 1998 11:11am Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 745161 To: Amiga Re: quoting (Reply to #745118, Reply to #745097, Reply to #745070, R*) AM>SF>AM>SF>SC>SF>AM>Computer prices are always falling (one week something cou AM>SF>AM>SF>SC>SF>AM>$500.00- the next weeks it's only like $125.00) AM>SF>AM>SF>SC>SF>AM>A perfect example: those AWE64 cards- they were like $189. AM>SF>AM>SF>SC>SF>AM>while ago- now you can pretty much get one for $89.00 (may AM>SF>AM>SF>SC>SF>AM>cheaper at A SHOW) AM>SF>AM>SF>SC>SF>So.....I keep asking how is a person suppose to know when is AM>SF>AM>SF>SC>SF>buy and when to wait. AM>SF>AM>SF>SC>When a systen looks good and is within your price range. AM>SF>AM>SF>SC>Keep in mind though, that the prices you see are for systems tha AM>SF>AM>SF>SC>low end and will eventually be discontinued, so if you wait too AM>SF>AM>SF>SC>they will not be available. AM>SF>AM>SF>SC> * OLX 2.1 TD * B Command to find what a BBS is about. AM>SF>AM>SF>And the very cheap systems are not really worth the investment. AM>SF>AM>Depens on what kinda system (and what you plan on doing with it) AM>SF>AM>Ie: the average COMPUTER buyer only wants ta access the internet.. AM>SF>AM>so what more do they need? but atleast any ole 133mhz - 166mhz, with AM>SF>AM>16/32 megs ram-,56k modem (and thats all ya need) AM>SF>AM>Then on the other hand if your A PROGRAMMER or TECH- who needs the AM>SF>AM>latest 300mhz+ machines (well ofcourse you don't invest in old AM>SF>AM>computers)- but the average computer user can't even format A DISK in AM>SF>AM>DOS mode- so I doubt the average COMPUTER user will ever use that sup AM>SF>AM>FAST COMPUTER to the MAX... AM>SF>AM> AM>SF>With all the advise I have been learning fast! AM>Thats what it's all about (informations) and good information.. AM>I see so many people who give people "BAD" information So far, at least around here that is thankfully not the case. Date: Thursday, March 5, 1998 11:14am Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 745162 To: Amiga Re: PC Prices (Reply to #745119, Reply to #745098, Reply to #745075, R*) (1 reply) AM>SF>CO>SF>CO>Given that said downward motion has existed for as long as compu AM>SF>CO>SF>CO>suspect it will continue to exist as long as PCs still have impr AM>SF>CO>SF>CO>within sight. AM>SF>CO>SF>So....when does one buy? AM>SF>CO>You buy when what you want is in a range you can afford, of course. AM>SF>CO>No later, 'cause then you won't get enough use out of it. AM>SF>CO>No earlier, either, though, 'cause then you won't get what you want, o AM>SF>CO>pay more than you want to for it. AM>SF>Knowing that exact time you describe appears to be the trick. AM>Not really A trick- (but more) what do you NEED? AM>lets say all you want to do is run A (GRAPHICAL WEB BROWSER) AM>Well first- you find out whats the "min system" that can run A GFX web AM>browser...? AM>Well the "min system" that can handle A GFX WEB BROWSER (with ok speeds) AM>I would say is: A 80386 with 8+ megs ram,A large HD, and A 56k modem AM>So with that said- you figure any system faster than the above system AM>is all you need (for your basic GRAPHIC INTERNET stuff) AM>note: Computer upgrades arent for everyone!! (they never were for AM>everyone) you upgrade your hardware ta keep up with the software you AM>need ta run ;-) AM>most people upgrade "just because" (which is stupid) AM>Most people upgrade their hardware (but never buy software) which AM>requires that hardware... (ie: you buy A 233 cpu) but you only buy AM>software which runs fine on A 100mhz machine... AM>hehehehe- I know guys who have 300mhz machines (and everytime I tell AM>them that they could run the same software on A much slower machine) AM>they get "MAD" ;-) I know what I do now with my computer system is limited by the system itself, yet I do not want to limit myself nor overbuy at the same time. Date: Thursday, March 5, 1998 11:15am Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 745163 To: Steve C Re: quoting (Reply to #745124, Reply to #745044, Reply to #745039, R*) (1 reply) SC>SF>SC>When a systen looks good and is within your price range. SC>SF>SC>Keep in mind though, that the prices you see are for systems that are SC>SF>SC>low end and will eventually be discontinued, so if you wait too long SC>SF>SC>they will not be available. SC>SF>And the very cheap systems are not really worth the investment. SC>Well, if you really want to go bottom line, you can get an AST P100 with SC>16MB Ram, 1.2GB hard drive and a 4x CD-Rom for $399 from Micro Exchange SC>(http://www.microexch.com), but then again that will only be good enough SC>for BBS and light web surfing. SC> * OLX 2.1 TD * Screw the Prime Directive. If it moves, shoot it Thanks for the specific information. Date: Thursday, March 5, 1998 11:18am Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 745164 To: Steve C Re: quoting (Reply to #745130, Reply to #745043, Reply to #745033, R*) (3 replies) SC>SF>Now this all makes more sense. By the way, why do you keep picking on my SC>SF>poor 2400 modem that I am using right now. SC>Because, while a 2400 is good enough for BBS's, E_Mail and news lists, SC>web surfing usually offers rich graphics that will either be unavailable SC>to you or take a long time to load.(even with my 14.4 some pages SC>seem to take forever to load.) SC>Not to fear though, If you are looking into a new system, most come with SC>at least a 28.8 modem and if not they are pretty reasonably priced. SC> * OLX 2.1 TD * Pardon Me, But Would You Have Any Blue Poupon? The couple of stores I have visited insist that nothing less than a 36 modem will work for web surfing, but then again they are looking to increase their sales. Date: Thursday, March 5, 1998 11:20am Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 745165 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #745141, Reply to #745094, Reply to #745047, R*) VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>SF>Why would Win 98 cause the prices of computers to go up? VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>I figure the reason why the prices are so low now is that the de VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>are trying to dump their stock of computers loaded with Win 95. VI>SF>VI>SF>VI>Win 98 comes out the existing systems will be out of date. VI>SF>VI>SF>Sounds sort of logical, I think. VI>SF>VI>I think Editor was more or less telling you the same thing. VI>SF>Between the 2 of you I figured out your thought. VI>I'm sure Editor deserves more of the credit. He is much clearer than I VI>on this issue. :) Every little bit helps. Date: Thursday, March 5, 1998 12:00pm Forum: Computing From: Nightbird Msg#: 745167 To: Steve Flur Re: quoting (Reply to #745164, Reply to #745130, Reply to #745043, R*) (2 replies) SF>C>SF>Now this all makes more sense. By the way, why do you keep picking on m SF>SC>SF>poor 2400 modem that I am using right now. SF>SC>Because, while a 2400 is good enough for BBS's, E_Mail and news lists, SF>SC>web surfing usually offers rich graphics that will either be unavailable SF>SC>to you or take a long time to load.(even with my 14.4 some pages SF>SC>seem to take forever to load.) SF>SC>Not to fear though, If you are looking into a new system, most come with SF>SC>at least a 28.8 modem and if not they are pretty reasonably priced. SF>SC> * OLX 2.1 TD * Pardon Me, But Would You Have Any Blue Poupon? SF>The couple of stores I have visited insist that nothing less than a 36 SF>modem will work for web surfing, but then again they are looking to SF>increase their sales. Steve & I use a 14.4 to surf the web, don't get me wrong, a 33.6 would be great but I need to upgrade my computer first. --- þ OLX 2.1 TD þ Press any key to continue or any other key to quit Date: Thursday, March 5, 1998 12:38pm Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 745168 To: Nightbird Re: quoting (Reply to #745167, Reply to #745164, Reply to #745130, R*) (2 replies) NI>SF>C>SF>Now this all makes more sense. By the way, why do you keep picking o NI>SF>SC>SF>poor 2400 modem that I am using right now. NI>SF>SC>Because, while a 2400 is good enough for BBS's, E_Mail and news lists, NI>SF>SC>web surfing usually offers rich graphics that will either be unavailab NI>SF>SC>to you or take a long time to load.(even with my 14.4 some pages NI>SF>SC>seem to take forever to load.) NI>SF>SC>Not to fear though, If you are looking into a new system, most come wi NI>SF>SC>at least a 28.8 modem and if not they are pretty reasonably priced. NI>SF>SC> * OLX 2.1 TD * Pardon Me, But Would You Have Any Blue Poupon? NI>SF>The couple of stores I have visited insist that nothing less than a 36 NI>SF>modem will work for web surfing, but then again they are looking to NI>SF>increase their sales. NI>Steve & I use a 14.4 to surf the web, don't get me wrong, a 33.6 would NI>be great but I need to upgrade my computer first. NI>--- NI> þ OLX 2.1 TD þ Press any key to continue or any other key to quit I fully realize that the advice Iget here is far different than the "advice" I get at a computer store. Date: Thursday, March 5, 1998 2:12pm Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 745172 To: Steve Flur Re: quoting (Reply to #745153, Reply to #745103, Reply to #745043, R*) (2 replies) SF>I was not being serious. I am fully aware that my present system, SF>although "top of the line" for Apple at the time of purchase was short SF>thereafter abandoned by Apple and was never designed to interact with SF>today's technology. You know, people ask me why I don't like Apple, and you have just summarized it. They have abandoned their users several time. We had a pretty fair system written on the Apple II some years ago. When the Apple III came out, we found that there was no portability. So we gritted our teeth and rewrote it. You may not remember the Apple III. It came and went pretty quickly because it was pretty awful, and then came Lisa, incompatible, and finally Mac, incompatible. On the other hand, code developed for my old PC with an 8086 chip ran on the 286, the 386 and so on. Only a few of the more exotic functions that physically manipulated the hardware wouldn't move forward. So.... Apple fucked their developers, fucked their customers, fucked their dealers (by direct selling to customers undercutting their dealer prices), and now, 15 years later, they wonder why they have a first class product with only a 5% market share. Meanwhile, Microsoft, and to a lesser degree IBM, offer a mediocre product that holds 95% of the market. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Thursday, March 5, 1998 4:25pm Forum: Computing From: Steve C Msg#: 745176 To: Editor Re: quoting (Reply to #745109, Reply to #745036, Reply to #745000, R*) (1 reply) ED>SC>I'll wait till after the baby is born, then buy a whole new system. ED>Don't wait too long. This price collapse is being driven by the end of ED>production on the 200 Mhz chips. By mid to end summer, supplies of ED>computers with the "older" chips will dry up, and retailers will start ED>gearing up for Christmas sales (Gawd... am really I talking about Christmas ED>shopping in March!!!), and things will change. I'm not looking to get a new system till at least the end of this year, but if the peoposed 1000Mhz chips come out next summer the P2/233 systems should be reasonably priced by then. If not there is always the used/refurbished route. * OLX 2.1 TD * DO NOT ADJUST YOUR MIND - the fault is with reality Date: Thursday, March 5, 1998 4:25pm Forum: Computing From: Steve C Msg#: 745177 To: Amiga Re: quoting (Reply to #745134, Reply to #745125, Reply to #745050, R*) AM>SC>True, the only expense I can see going for at this time is more Ram, AM>SC>which I found for about $80 for 16 meg. And if I change my service AM>SC>providor to Erols, I can save more than that in the first year so it AM>SC>might be a worthy tradeoff. AM>You gotta start looking on the USED-market (16meg simm) for $35.00 Thats a good idea. That may the solution to my problem. * OLX 2.1 TD * What if the Hokey Pokey IS what its all about? Date: Thursday, March 5, 1998 4:25pm Forum: Computing From: Steve C Msg#: 745178 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #745147, Reply to #745125, Reply to #745050, R*) (1 reply) VI>SC>True, the only expense I can see going for at this time is more Ram, VI>SC>which I found for about $80 for 16 meg. And if I change my service VI>SC>providor to Erols, I can save more than that in the first year so it VI>SC>might be a worthy tradeoff. VI>I would suggest going for even higher than 16 meg. I think some of the VI>new programs are really hogs and that they need a lot of ump to run VI>them properly. Actually, I's like to go as high as I can, but for the time being, I can add 16, keep 4 of my old 1 meg simms to total 20meg and when I have the extra money upgrade to at least 32. * OLX 2.1 TD * Computers make very fast, very accurate mistakes. Date: Thursday, March 5, 1998 4:25pm Forum: Computing From: Steve C Msg#: 745180 To: Steve Flur Re: quoting (Reply to #745163, Reply to #745124, Reply to #745044, R*) (1 reply) SF>SC>SF>And the very cheap systems are not really worth the investment. SF>SC>Well, if you really want to go bottom line, you can get an AST P100 with SF>SC>16MB Ram, 1.2GB hard drive and a 4x CD-Rom for $399 from Micro Exchange SF>SC>(http://www.microexch.com), but then again that will only be good enough SF>SC>for BBS and light web surfing. SF>Thanks for the specific information. No problem. I happened to be reading it just before reading my messages so it was fresh in my mind. * OLX 2.1 TD * ...Tag line thievery...On the next Geraldo! Date: Thursday, March 5, 1998 4:25pm Forum: Computing From: Steve C Msg#: 745181 To: Steve Flur Re: quoting (Reply to #745164, Reply to #745130, Reply to #745043, R*) (1 reply) SF>SC>Not to fear though, If you are looking into a new system, most come with SF>SC>at least a 28.8 modem and if not they are pretty reasonably priced. SF>The couple of stores I have visited insist that nothing less than a 36 SF>modem will work for web surfing, but then again they are looking to SF>increase their sales. They're trying to make a sale. I'm using a 14.4, and while I would like a faster modem, it does everything I currently need. * OLX 2.1 TD * Readers or the lost .ARC Date: Thursday, March 5, 1998 4:25pm Forum: Computing From: Steve C Msg#: 745183 To: Amiga Re: quoting (Reply to #745133, Reply to #745124, Reply to #745044, R*) AM>SC>Well, if you really want to go bottom line, you can get an AST P100 with AM>SC>16MB Ram, 1.2GB hard drive and a 4x CD-Rom for $399 from Micro Exchange AM>SC>(http://www.microexch.com), but then again that will only be good enough AM>SC>for BBS and light web surfing. AM>And even thats over priced! (I'd sell one of my old boards with A 166mhz AM>cpu) for $150 / $175 for someone with nothing to upgrade, who is looking for just a web surfer, it's probably a bargain. * OLX 2.1 TD * Dyslexics of the world...UNTIE! Date: Thursday, March 5, 1998 4:25pm Forum: Computing From: Steve C Msg#: 745184 To: Amiga Re: quoting (Reply to #745135, Reply to #745128, Reply to #745072, R*) AM>It makes no sense upgrading to 95 or 98, if you don't plan on buyin any AM>new software... (I just like you..) all my stuff runs on '95- so I doubt AM>I'm gonna need '98, (tell ya the truth- most stuff runs on Win 3.11) Untill about a year ago, I did almost all my stuff in DOS.(on a 286 and a PS2 50z) It was only when I built the 486, that I really started to use Windows. * OLX 2.1 TD * Saddam & Little Miss Muffet have Kurds in their way. Date: Thursday, March 5, 1998 4:26pm Forum: Computing From: Steve C Msg#: 745185 To: Amiga Re: quoting (Reply to #745136, Reply to #745130, Reply to #745043, R*) (1 reply) AM>Then just use LYNX A text based web browser (same web, same information) AM>Or even- A gfx web browser.. while your waitin (20 years) for A page ta AM>load with that 2400bps modem- you could 1. Telnet to A system, 2. Join A AM>chat channel on IRC. etc,.. AM>Sure I agree- that you would go nuts waitin for pages on A 2400bps modem AM>(but if thats all you have) hey ya can't knock it ;-) Actually he's talking about starting from scratch, so A 14.4 modem will not cost much more than a 2400. And if he can get a package deal with a 28.8 or 33.6 thrown in, even better. * OLX 2.1 TD * ...I would face reality...if I knew which way to turn. Date: Thursday, March 5, 1998 4:26pm Forum: Computing From: Steve C Msg#: 745186 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #745148, Reply to #745126, Reply to #745051, R*) (1 reply) VI>SC>My sentiments exactly. If I didn't have more important things to worry VI>SC>about, I'd jump at one of those new systems. VI>Like Tevye used to say..."If I was a rich man...." :) I thought I heard music last night. Might I have a fiddler on my roof? * OLX 2.1 TD * ...Xerox never comes up with anything original. Date: Thursday, March 5, 1998 5:01pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745187 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #745144, Reply to #745113, Reply to #745083, R*) (1 reply) VI>AM>VI>I have a Pentium 66 mhz. VI>AM>find out whats the highest (CPU) your motherboard supports.. VI>You mean dig out my documentation for my computer? :) Thats A good start ;-) Date: Thursday, March 5, 1998 5:05pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745188 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #745145, Reply to #745114, Reply to #745084, R*) (1 reply) VI>AM>Tell ya the truth- I could get by on A 386dx33, if I had ta ;-) VI>AM>My systems right now are: VI>AM>Commodore 64 w/TMC 4.09mhz & 2meg REU,800k 1581 VI>AM>Amiga 500 w/1mb chip & 7megs fast,33mhz 68030,1gig HD VI>AM>Amiga 1200 w/2mb chip & 14megs fast,PPC/060 166mhz,2gig HD VI>AM>80386 DX-33 w/8 megs ram,106meg HD VI>AM>Pentium 233mhz w/ 64megs,64bit gfx accel,2gig HD VI>AM>I use everyone of my systems (thats another reason why I don't need alot VI>AM>of small upgrades) ie: instead of overkill on one machine- I can do many VI>AM>tasks on each machine.. (ofcourse I'm not the average home computer VI>AM>user) VI>I have Win 3.1. I never bothered to upgrade to Win 95 because I VI>thought to myself "Why do I need it?". But now I find I can't run some VI>of the cool toys on the internet, which is why I need to be able to run VI>Java aps. I figure once Win 98 comes out they will develope even more VI>toys on the net that I won't be able to run, and by that time I will VI>feel really deprived. :) Yeah, alot of "INTERNET" stuff does require (WIN95) or atleast pure 32bit... Date: Thursday, March 5, 1998 5:07pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745189 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #745146, Reply to #745115, Reply to #745085, R*) (2 replies) VI>AM>VI>AM>ZIPS. VI>AM>VI>AM>You could buy one of those 2gig DITTO drive (well worth what they c VI>AM>VI>AM>and you can find they cheap at A show or used.. VI>AM>VI>AM>The best way to back your system up- is with A CD-ROM. VI>AM>VI>AM>CD-R's still cost A pretty penny- but they are also well worth the VI>AM>VI>AM>plus you can cram! alot of info on those CD's... VI>AM>VI>But first you need a recordable CD Rom drive. Which I don't have. I VI>AM>VI>can play CD Roms but can't record them. VI>AM>Buy A USED CD-R (you can't find A old IDE) for almost dirt cheap VI>Are there any of those on the market already? I thought CD-R VI>technology was so new that you could not find a used CD-R drive on the VI>market. New?? far from new (CD recorders have been on the market for some time now) I remember them as far back as 1992. Date: Thursday, March 5, 1998 5:10pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745190 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #745147, Reply to #745125, Reply to #745050, R*) VI>SC>VI>SC>Probably as far as mine, but with the way prices are falling, I thi VI>SC>VI>SC>I'll wait till after the baby is born, then buy a whole new system. VI>SC>VI>Yes, I think it would be a generally good idea to avoid any major VI>SC>VI>expense until after your baby is born, G*d willing. :) VI>SC>True, the only expense I can see going for at this time is more Ram, VI>SC>which I found for about $80 for 16 meg. And if I change my service VI>SC>providor to Erols, I can save more than that in the first year so it VI>SC>might be a worthy tradeoff. VI>I would suggest going for even higher than 16 meg. I think some of the VI>new programs are really hogs and that they need a lot of ump to run VI>them properly. 32megs is the safe spot! (it's a bit more than the average user will need- but it's always there just in-case ya need it ;-) I myself have 64megs on my p-233 (and I'm looking ta upgrade my RAM) I do alot of audio production (which really dogs out my ram) Date: Thursday, March 5, 1998 5:15pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745191 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #745148, Reply to #745126, Reply to #745051, R*) (2 replies) VI>SC>VI>SC>keep in mind that win 95 and win 98 are operating systems and can b VI>SC>VI>SC>installed on any computer with the ability to run them. VI>SC>VI>I understand that. I don't think I can run Win 95 on my existing VI>SC>VI>system without upgrading. I only have 8 Mb. I think you need at leas VI>SC>VI>16 to effectively run Win 95 apps. And if that's true of Win 95, I VI>SC>VI>would assume Win 98 would require even more! VI>SC>I believe you are currently running a pentium 66, right? VI>SC>You can probably upgrade the memory for a small price. (my puter takes VI>SC>30 pin memory which is harder to obtain, and I found a place that has it VI>SC>for $20 for a 4MB chip, so for $80 I can put 16MB in it, plus leave the VI>SC>4 1MB chips in the second bank for a total of 20MB) VI>SC>Yours should be even cheaper if you want to keep the puter without VI>SC>upgrading the processer. VI>SC>VI>SC>They are lowering the prices on the lower powered Pentiuns to move VI>SC>VI>SC>because once the new stuff becomes more reasonably priced, no one w VI>SC>VI>SC>want the older stuff.(BTW a lot of this "older stuff" are actually VI>SC>VI>SC>pretty good systems and will be capable of running win 98 when it i $20 is too much money for A 4meg 30pin SIMM (I guess they could get away with it- if they are ne (but I doubt it). 4meg 30pin SIMMS only sell for like $8 - $10 on the used market I'm tellin ya (in the computer market) used or new (is pretty much the samething) Things like monitors (are always smart ta buy new) cuz, you figure thats the one thing your gonna have for Awhile ;-) but everything else, ie: Ram, Motherboards/CPU's,etc.... (I say by USED) if you know what your buyin ;-) Date: Thursday, March 5, 1998 5:18pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745192 To: Steve Flur Re: quoting (Reply to #745153, Reply to #745103, Reply to #745043, R*) (1 reply) SF>ED>--- SF>ED> þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy SF>I was not being serious. I am fully aware that my present system, SF>although "top of the line" for Apple at the time of purchase was shortly SF>thereafter abandoned by Apple and was never designed to interact with SF>today's technology. Not ture- not true.. If your computer can be used as A terminal to access the INTERNET? then your computer can interact with todays technology.. We are living in the INFORMATION AGE! (not that GRAPHICS AGE) sure, graphics make things look NICE & COOL! Aslong as you can access the "INFORMATION" thats all that matter s Date: Thursday, March 5, 1998 5:22pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745193 To: Editor Re: quoting (Reply to #745155, Reply to #745143, Reply to #745105, R*) ED>Yup... but with the prices I'm seeing, that may not be worth it either. I ED>just got an email ad from one of those I call a "clone clone" operation. ED>$700 for a 200Mhz, CD ROM, 32mb RAM, 3 gig disk, modem and W95 loaded. Just ED>about everything but a keyboard and monitor. You've got to wonder about ED>this, given that the modem has got to cost $100 and the disk has to cost ED>$200+. If you've got the stomach for putting up with the idiosynchrasies of ED>such a patchwork quilt its a good price. But I'd rather be USING the ED>machine than fine tuning it. ED>--- ED> þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy I don't know about that- but here are the average prices right now! $200.00 for A Pentium 200 mobo & cpu Date: Thursday, March 5, 1998 5:38pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745195 To: Steve Flur Re: quoting (Reply to #745160, Reply to #745117, Reply to #745096, R*) (1 reply) SF>AM>SF>AM>SF>ED>SF>Why would Win 98 cause the prices of computers to go up? SF>AM>SF>AM>SF>ED>Look at Windows 3.1 vs Windows 95. Windows 3.1 ran pretty wel SF>AM>SF>AM>SF>ED>of disk and 4mb of RAM. The book says you can run W95 in 8mb, SF>AM>SF>AM>SF>ED>better not be in a hurry. And 200mb is barely enough to load SF>AM>SF>AM>SF>ED>application. So your "minimal machine" jumped from a 33Mhz 38 SF>AM>SF>AM>SF>ED>RAM and 200mb of disk to a minimum of a 75Mhz 496 with 16mb o SF>AM>SF>AM>SF>ED>1gb disk. Even with prices plunging, that costs. Then of cour SF>AM>SF>AM>SF>ED>2400 baud modem is almost useless for browsing the web, so yo SF>AM>SF>AM>SF>ED>and so on. SF>AM>SF>AM>SF>ED>--- SF>AM>SF>AM>SF>ED> þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy SF>AM>SF>AM>SF>Now this all makes more sense. By the way, why do you keep picki SF>AM>SF>AM>SF>poor 2400 modem that I am using right now. SF>AM>SF>AM>Heehehehehehehe, (tell him) ;-) SF>AM>SF>AM>Hey, I was still using my 1670 -1200bps modem on my Commodore 64 ;- SF>AM>SF>AM>and I was using that baby on the NET ;-) (I just love using all of SF>AM>SF>AM>computers) SF>AM>SF>My Apple IIGS had a very brief experience with AOL until they informed SF>AM>SF>me that they would no longer support my system. SF>AM>Forget "AOL" (I hate them anyway) SF>AM>ALl you need is A NT server or UNIX/shell account... SF>Any suggestions about who or what can accomadate my system would be SF>welcomed. I left you A "Private EMAIL" on this subject ;-) Date: Thursday, March 5, 1998 5:56pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745196 To: Steve Flur Re: PC Prices (Reply to #745162, Reply to #745119, Reply to #745098, R*) (1 reply) SF>AM>hehehehe- I know guys who have 300mhz machines (and everytime I tell SF>AM>them that they could run the same software on A much slower machine) SF>AM>they get "MAD" ;-) SF>I know what I do now with my computer system is limited by the system SF>itself, yet I do not want to limit myself nor overbuy at the same time. This is what I do- I upgrade only when the software "WILL NOT" run on my machine... Now in the PC world.. this can be A funny thing (because I have always found that there are two types of machines which can run the software) You have the the "SYSTEM" that software company says you should have ie: We think you should have A Pentium-xxx, with xxx Megs ram Then you have the "SYSTEM" that software company says is required ie: You need at least A 80386, with x Megs ram Here is A perfect example: I have this game called "Super StarWars" from LucasFilms games.. It says you should have A Pentium 90, with Perfect example: I have "Super StarWars" from LUCASFILMS GAMES.. They say you need A Pentium 90, with 8megs RAM!- but It runs on one of my old 386's w/ 4megs RAM (without any problems) Date: Thursday, March 5, 1998 6:02pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745197 To: Steve Flur Re: quoting (Reply to #745164, Reply to #745130, Reply to #745043, R*) (1 reply) SF>SC>SF>Now this all makes more sense. By the way, why do you keep picking on SF>SC>SF>poor 2400 modem that I am using right now. SF>SC>Because, while a 2400 is good enough for BBS's, E_Mail and news lists, SF>SC>web surfing usually offers rich graphics that will either be unavailable SF>SC>to you or take a long time to load.(even with my 14.4 some pages SF>SC>seem to take forever to load.) SF>SC>Not to fear though, If you are looking into a new system, most come with SF>SC>at least a 28.8 modem and if not they are pretty reasonably priced. SF>SC> * OLX 2.1 TD * Pardon Me, But Would You Have Any Blue Poupon? SF>The couple of stores I have visited insist that nothing less than a 36 SF>modem will work for web surfing, but then again they are looking to SF>increase their sales. Thats what they all SAY! (man) those guys are only out ta make A BUCK! if you ask them if A 486 could get on the INTERNET- they would tell you no! (man) most of those guys at computer stores are full of crap! NEVER lissen ta those guys!! (thats why I always buy my stuff from shows/wholesale or on the USED-MARKET!) Hehehe, and whats funny about that is- in some areas (the phone lines) can't even handle 28.8 (so who was that sales person try ta fool) p/s: ofcourse in NYC- our phone-lines are pretty up ta speed Date: Thursday, March 5, 1998 6:06pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745198 To: Nightbird Re: quoting (Reply to #745167, Reply to #745164, Reply to #745130, R*) (1 reply) NI>SF>SC> * OLX 2.1 TD * Pardon Me, But Would You Have Any Blue Poupon? NI>SF>The couple of stores I have visited insist that nothing less than a 36 NI>SF>modem will work for web surfing, but then again they are looking to NI>SF>increase their sales. NI>Steve & I use a 14.4 to surf the web, don't get me wrong, a 33.6 would NI>be great but I need to upgrade my computer first. NI>--- NI> þ OLX 2.1 TD þ Press any key to continue or any other key to quit If your doing GRAPHIC INTERNET with A 14.4 modem now (and ya wanna increase your speeds on the net?) Just buy some more RAM & A 56k modem (you'll be happy) I'd rather have A FASTER modem & more RAM- over A faster CPU (any day) aslong as the CPU I'm using (is pretty much up ta SPEED)- and if ya ask me.. RAM is far more important than CPU speed ;-) Date: Thursday, March 5, 1998 6:07pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745199 To: Steve Flur Re: quoting (Reply to #745168, Reply to #745167, Reply to #745164, R*) (1 reply) SF>NI>--- SF>NI> þ OLX 2.1 TD þ Press any key to continue or any other key to quit SF>I fully realize that the advice Iget here is far different than the SF>"advice" I get at a computer store. ie: We have nothing ta gain- by telling you the TRUTH ;-) vs Computer sales people who have everything ta gain by telling you LIES :-( Date: Thursday, March 5, 1998 6:13pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745200 To: Steve C Re: quoting (Reply to #745185, Reply to #745136, Reply to #745130, R*) SC>AM>Then just use LYNX A text based web browser (same web, same information) SC>AM>Or even- A gfx web browser.. while your waitin (20 years) for A page ta SC>AM>load with that 2400bps modem- you could 1. Telnet to A system, 2. Join A SC>AM>chat channel on IRC. etc,.. SC>AM>Sure I agree- that you would go nuts waitin for pages on A 2400bps modem SC>AM>(but if thats all you have) hey ya can't knock it ;-) SC>Actually he's talking about starting from scratch, so A 14.4 modem will SC>not cost much more than a 2400. And if he can get a package deal with a SC>28.8 or 33.6 thrown in, even better. SC> * OLX 2.1 TD * ...I would face reality...if I knew which way to turn. Your right ;-) A 14.4 is only like $15.00 Date: Friday, March 6, 1998 8:00am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 745205 To: Editor Re: quoting (Reply to #745155, Reply to #745143, Reply to #745105, R*) (4 replies) ED>V >ED>V >A lawyer friend of mine just bought a new computer with Speech ED>V >recognition technology. She's a solo practioner and thought that in ED>V >the long run it would be more cost efficient than having to pay for a ED>V >secretary. ED>Its still pretty new, but its there. You'll see more of it every day. Like ED>I said, it really eats CPU, especially if its speaker independent ED>recognition. But the current crop of stuff we are seeing is speaker ED>dependent variety, meaning it only guarentees accuracy for the one person ED>it trained with. I hear those are doing pretty well. She says that it takes some getting used to. And it still makes errors. She has been told by the tech support people of the software company that the software has a hard time with her because she has a bit of a NY accent. :) She sounds prefectly normal to me, btw. :) ED>V >ED>So... it depends on what you need. I think buying anything slower t ED>V >ED>Mhz is something you are going to regret. ED>V > ED>V >Or for that matter, it doesn't pay to upgrade your system unless you ED>V >upgrade to at least 200 Mhz and 32 RAM, right? ED>Yup... but with the prices I'm seeing, that may not be worth it either. I ED>just got an email ad from one of those I call a "clone clone" operation. ED>$700 for a 200Mhz, CD ROM, 32mb RAM, 3 gig disk, modem and W95 loaded. Just ED>about everything but a keyboard and monitor. You've got to wonder about ED>this, given that the modem has got to cost $100 and the disk has to cost ED>$200+. If you've got the stomach for putting up with the idiosynchrasies of ED>such a patchwork quilt its a good price. But I'd rather be USING the ED>machine than fine tuning it. $700 for a 200 Mhz and 32 mb RAM and 3 gigs??? That sounds almost too good to be true!! If it's real, give me the number! :) Date: Friday, March 6, 1998 8:01am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 745206 To: Editor Re: quoting (Reply to #745158, Reply to #745145, Reply to #745114, R*) ED>V >I have Win 3.1. I never bothered to upgrade to Win 95 because I ED>V >thought to myself "Why do I need it?". But now I find I can't run som ED>V >of the cool toys on the internet, which is why I need to be able to ru ED>V >Java aps. I figure once Win 98 comes out they will develope even more ED>V >toys on the net that I won't be able to run, and by that time I will ED>V >feel really deprived. :) ED>I don't think we are going to see as dramatic a jump again. Win 3.1 was ED>amazing. It was based on DOS, which was based on CPM which was developed in ED>the 70s!!!!! W95 was really the first fundamental change in operating ED>systems since the PC came out. I'm not sure what the intentions are for ED>W98. More is being written about NT5, which is more of a corporate ED>platform, than W98. But NT5 is so far behind schedule, that the talk is ED>that MS will be trying to make W98 more attractive to corporate users. What ED>this might mean to the consumer marketplace is beyond me. I suspect it will ED>be more a case of faster and better than any of the dramatic functional ED>changes we saw in W95. But again, I could be wrong. Its Mr. Gates who lives ED>in the big house on the West Coast, I just have my modest row house in ED>Queens. Yeah, we noticed. :) Date: Friday, March 6, 1998 8:02am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 745207 To: Steve C Re: quoting (Reply to #745178, Reply to #745147, Reply to #745125, R*) SC>VI>SC>True, the only expense I can see going for at this time is more Ram, SC>VI>SC>which I found for about $80 for 16 meg. And if I change my service SC>VI>SC>providor to Erols, I can save more than that in the first year so it SC>VI>SC>might be a worthy tradeoff. SC>VI>I would suggest going for even higher than 16 meg. I think some of the SC>VI>new programs are really hogs and that they need a lot of ump to run SC>VI>them properly. SC>Actually, I's like to go as high as I can, but for the time being, I can SC>add 16, keep 4 of my old 1 meg simms to total 20meg and when I have the SC>extra money upgrade to at least 32. Sounds like a good plan. :) Date: Friday, March 6, 1998 8:03am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 745208 To: Steve C Re: quoting (Reply to #745186, Reply to #745148, Reply to #745126, R*) SC>VI>SC>My sentiments exactly. If I didn't have more important things to worry SC>VI>SC>about, I'd jump at one of those new systems. SC>VI>Like Tevye used to say..."If I was a rich man...." :) SC>I thought I heard music last night. Might I have a fiddler on my roof? ROTFL :) Date: Friday, March 6, 1998 8:03am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 745209 To: Amiga Re: quoting (Reply to #745187, Reply to #745144, Reply to #745113, R*) AM>VI>AM>VI>I have a Pentium 66 mhz. AM>VI>AM>find out whats the highest (CPU) your motherboard supports.. AM>VI>You mean dig out my documentation for my computer? :) AM>Thats A good start ;-) Duh :) Date: Friday, March 6, 1998 8:04am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 745210 To: Amiga Re: quoting (Reply to #745188, Reply to #745145, Reply to #745114, R*) AM>VI>AM>Tell ya the truth- I could get by on A 386dx33, if I had ta ;-) AM>VI>AM>My systems right now are: AM>VI>AM>Commodore 64 w/TMC 4.09mhz & 2meg REU,800k 1581 AM>VI>AM>Amiga 500 w/1mb chip & 7megs fast,33mhz 68030,1gig HD AM>VI>AM>Amiga 1200 w/2mb chip & 14megs fast,PPC/060 166mhz,2gig HD AM>VI>AM>80386 DX-33 w/8 megs ram,106meg HD AM>VI>AM>Pentium 233mhz w/ 64megs,64bit gfx accel,2gig HD AM>VI>AM>I use everyone of my systems (thats another reason why I don't need al AM>VI>AM>of small upgrades) ie: instead of overkill on one machine- I can do ma AM>VI>AM>tasks on each machine.. (ofcourse I'm not the average home computer AM>VI>AM>user) AM>VI>I have Win 3.1. I never bothered to upgrade to Win 95 because I AM>VI>thought to myself "Why do I need it?". But now I find I can't run some AM>VI>of the cool toys on the internet, which is why I need to be able to run AM>VI>Java aps. I figure once Win 98 comes out they will develope even more AM>VI>toys on the net that I won't be able to run, and by that time I will AM>VI>feel really deprived. :) AM>Yeah, alot of "INTERNET" stuff does require (WIN95) or atleast pure AM>32bit... I've noticed, I've noticed. :( Date: Friday, March 6, 1998 8:05am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 745211 To: Amiga Re: quoting (Reply to #745189, Reply to #745146, Reply to #745115, R*) (1 reply) AM>VI>AM>VI>AM>ZIPS. AM>VI>AM>VI>AM>You could buy one of those 2gig DITTO drive (well worth what the AM>VI>AM>VI>AM>and you can find they cheap at A show or used.. AM>VI>AM>VI>AM>The best way to back your system up- is with A CD-ROM. AM>VI>AM>VI>AM>CD-R's still cost A pretty penny- but they are also well worth t AM>VI>AM>VI>AM>plus you can cram! alot of info on those CD's... AM>VI>AM>VI>But first you need a recordable CD Rom drive. Which I don't have. AM>VI>AM>VI>can play CD Roms but can't record them. AM>VI>AM>Buy A USED CD-R (you can't find A old IDE) for almost dirt cheap AM>VI>Are there any of those on the market already? I thought CD-R AM>VI>technology was so new that you could not find a used CD-R drive on the AM>VI>market. AM>New?? far from new (CD recorders have been on the market for some time AM>now) I remember them as far back as 1992. ???? I thought this was brand new, cuting edge stuff. Date: Friday, March 6, 1998 8:06am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 745212 To: Amiga Re: quoting (Reply to #745191, Reply to #745148, Reply to #745126, R*) (1 reply) AM>VI>SC>VI>SC>keep in mind that win 95 and win 98 are operating systems and ca AM>VI>SC>VI>SC>installed on any computer with the ability to run them. AM>VI>SC>VI>I understand that. I don't think I can run Win 95 on my existing AM>VI>SC>VI>system without upgrading. I only have 8 Mb. I think you need at l AM>VI>SC>VI>16 to effectively run Win 95 apps. And if that's true of Win 95, I AM>VI>SC>VI>would assume Win 98 would require even more! AM>VI>SC>I believe you are currently running a pentium 66, right? AM>VI>SC>You can probably upgrade the memory for a small price. (my puter takes AM>VI>SC>30 pin memory which is harder to obtain, and I found a place that has AM>VI>SC>for $20 for a 4MB chip, so for $80 I can put 16MB in it, plus leave th AM>VI>SC>4 1MB chips in the second bank for a total of 20MB) AM>VI>SC>Yours should be even cheaper if you want to keep the puter without AM>VI>SC>upgrading the processer. AM>VI>SC>VI>SC>They are lowering the prices on the lower powered Pentiuns to mo AM>VI>SC>VI>SC>because once the new stuff becomes more reasonably priced, no on AM>VI>SC>VI>SC>want the older stuff.(BTW a lot of this "older stuff" are actual AM>VI>SC>VI>SC>pretty good systems and will be capable of running win 98 when i AM>$20 is too much money for A 4meg 30pin SIMM (I guess they could get away AM>with it- if they are ne (but I doubt it). AM>4meg 30pin SIMMS only sell for like $8 - $10 on the used market AM>I'm tellin ya (in the computer market) used or new (is pretty much the AM>samething) AM>Things like monitors (are always smart ta buy new) cuz, you figure thats AM>the one thing your gonna have for Awhile ;-) AM>but everything else, ie: Ram, Motherboards/CPU's,etc.... (I say by USED) AM>if you know what your buyin ;-) But that's the problem in a nutshell, I don't know enough to be able to judge the good stuff from the turkeys. I have to rely on a reputable dealer. Date: Friday, March 6, 1998 9:43am Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 745215 To: Steve C Re: quoting (Reply to #745176, Reply to #745109, Reply to #745036, R*) (1 reply) SC>ED>SC>I'll wait till after the baby is born, then buy a whole new syst SC> SC>ED>Don't wait too long. This price collapse is being driven by the end SC>ED>production on the 200 Mhz chips. By mid to end summer, supplies of SC>ED>computers with the "older" chips will dry up, and retailers will st SC>ED>gearing up for Christmas sales (Gawd... am really I talking about C SC>ED>shopping in March!!!), and things will change. SC> SC>I'm not looking to get a new system till at least the end of this year SC>but if the peoposed 1000Mhz chips come out next summer the P2/233 SC>systems should be reasonably priced by then. If not there is always th SC>used/refurbished route. Well.... first of all I would think the prices would be better in January-February rather than during the Christmas season. Second, remember that the 1000Mhz chip was the result of new technology developed by IBM. So far it has only been demonstrated on what they call the Power PC-2 chip, which despite its name is not the 8x86 family. This is a blessing and a curse. The first platform to get the chip will probably be the RISC workstations, which are primarily Unix platforms. On the other hand, the technology could be applied by anyone. On the THIRD hand, IBM holds the patent on the technology, so the question of who gets it might be up in the air. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Friday, March 6, 1998 9:43am Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 745216 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #745205, Reply to #745155, Reply to #745143, R*) (1 reply) V >She says that it takes some getting used to. And it still makes V >errors. She has been told by the tech support people of the software V >company that the software has a hard time with her because she has a V >bit of a NY accent. :) V > V >She sounds prefectly normal to me, btw. :) Now that shit really pisses me off. What a patent, gold plated load of bullshit. Speech rec technology is miles from perfect, but whether it works or not has little to do with a NY accent. SR software is moving off the shelves at record speed, but it is MILES from perfect. The increases in CPU speed are going to help, but there are still technological breakthroughs to be made. Speech recognition in human beings is highly context sensitive. SR software has solved the easy part, pattern recognition, but there is an ambiguity to any pattern, the most obvious being homonyms, but accents and personal vagaries in pronunciation are more serious problems. The SR software comes up with a series of hits on the pattern, with varying levels of confidence. It then passes these hits through a set of grammars, rules relating the hits together, to see which combination of hits, probabilities and rules give the best fit. The second part represents a crude attempt at using context sensitivity. As CPU speeds go up, the pattern matching will get better. Also, since the algorithms work bass ackwards, they run until they reach an acceptable confidence level OR run out of time, the algorithm can make a more thorough search before presenting its answer. New York accent. Blathering idiot. If you can't tell a good lie you should just shut up. Or better still watch the next White House press conference and learn from your betters. V >ED>Yup... but with the prices I'm seeing, that may not be worth it eit V >ED>just got an email ad from one of those I call a "clone clone" opera V >ED>$700 for a 200Mhz, CD ROM, 32mb RAM, 3 gig disk, modem and W95 load V >ED>about everything but a keyboard and monitor. You've got to wonder a V >ED>this, given that the modem has got to cost $100 and the disk has to V >ED>$200+. If you've got the stomach for putting up with the idiosynchr V >ED>such a patchwork quilt its a good price. But I'd rather be USING th V >ED>machine than fine tuning it. V > V >$700 for a 200 Mhz and 32 mb RAM and 3 gigs??? That sounds almost too V >good to be true!! If it's real, give me the number! :) It was real, but it smelled like one of those things I call a clone, clone, clone. I'm sure I'll get another email ad, and I'll save it for you. But please be careful. Each of these machines tends to be one of a kind. When they work, they are splendid, and when they don't, you will begin to understand why IBM charges more. I suspect if you go into one of those local computer shops, nowadays invariably run by an oriental family, and ask for their pricing, you get something similar. Even better, if they are near your home, it will save you a ton of grief if it doesn't work. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Friday, March 6, 1998 11:45am Forum: Computing From: Nightbird Msg#: 745221 To: Steve Flur Re: quoting (Reply to #745168, Reply to #745167, Reply to #745164, R*) (1 reply) SF>I>SF>C>SF>Now this all makes more sense. By the way, why do you keep picking SF>NI>SF>SC>SF>poor 2400 modem that I am using right now. SF>NI>SF>SC>Because, while a 2400 is good enough for BBS's, E_Mail and news lis SF>NI>SF>SC>web surfing usually offers rich graphics that will either be unavai SF>NI>SF>SC>to you or take a long time to load.(even with my 14.4 some pages SF>NI>SF>SC>seem to take forever to load.) SF>NI>SF>SC>Not to fear though, If you are looking into a new system, most come SF>NI>SF>SC>at least a 28.8 modem and if not they are pretty reasonably priced. SF>NI>SF>SC> * OLX 2.1 TD * Pardon Me, But Would You Have Any Blue Poupon? SF>NI>SF>The couple of stores I have visited insist that nothing less than a 36 SF>NI>SF>modem will work for web surfing, but then again they are looking to SF>NI>SF>increase their sales. SF>NI>Steve & I use a 14.4 to surf the web, don't get me wrong, a 33.6 would SF>NI>be great but I need to upgrade my computer first. SF>NI>--- SF>NI> þ OLX 2.1 TD þ Press any key to continue or any other key to quit SF>I fully realize that the advice Iget here is far different than the SF>"advice" I get at a computer store. Duh, they're trying to sell you something you might not really need. --- þ OLX 2.1 TD þ Hello, I am part number ³ºÞº³º³Û³ºÝ³ºÝ³³ Date: Friday, March 6, 1998 11:45am Forum: Computing From: Nightbird Msg#: 745222 To: Amiga Re: quoting (Reply to #745198, Reply to #745167, Reply to #745164, R*) AM>NI>SF>SC> * OLX 2.1 TD * Pardon Me, But Would You Have Any Blue Poupon? AM>NI>SF>The couple of stores I have visited insist that nothing less than a 36 AM>NI>SF>modem will work for web surfing, but then again they are looking to AM>NI>SF>increase their sales. AM>NI>Steve & I use a 14.4 to surf the web, don't get me wrong, a 33.6 would AM>NI>be great but I need to upgrade my computer first. AM>NI>--- AM>NI> þ OLX 2.1 TD þ Press any key to continue or any other key to quit AM>If your doing GRAPHIC INTERNET with A 14.4 modem now (and ya wanna AM>increase your speeds on the net?) AM>Just buy some more RAM & A 56k modem (you'll be happy) AM>I'd rather have A FASTER modem & more RAM- over A faster CPU (any day) AM>aslong as the CPU I'm using (is pretty much up ta SPEED)- and if ya ask AM>me.. RAM is far more important than CPU speed ;-) more Ram I need(I'm only running 8 megs), a 56k modem I can wait on. --- þ OLX 2.1 TD þ Chicken heads are the chief food of captive alligators. Date: Friday, March 6, 1998 5:27pm Forum: Computing From: Steve C Msg#: 745226 To: Editor Re: quoting (Reply to #745215, Reply to #745176, Reply to #745109, R*) (1 reply) ED>Well.... first of all I would think the prices would be better in ED>January-February rather than during the Christmas season. Second, remember Thats true. ED>that the 1000Mhz chip was the result of new technology developed by IBM. So ED>far it has only been demonstrated on what they call the Power PC-2 chip, ED>which despite its name is not the 8x86 family. This is a blessing and a ED>curse. The first platform to get the chip will probably be the RISC ED>workstations, which are primarily Unix platforms. On the other hand, the ED>technology could be applied by anyone. On the THIRD hand, IBM holds the ED>patent on the technology, so the question of who gets it might be up in the ED>air. True, but after the problems IBM had with licensing the microchannel architecture bus (MCA) I would hope they wouldn't be THAT stupid again. My guess is that they will work out most of the bugs and then release it as a Cyrix chip, hoping to take some market share away from Intel. * OLX 2.1 TD * ...I have a 9600 bps modem & 1.5 bps fingers! Date: Friday, March 6, 1998 5:27pm Forum: Computing From: Steve C Msg#: 745228 To: Amiga Re: quoting (Reply to #745189, Reply to #745146, Reply to #745115, R*) AM>VI>AM>VI>But first you need a recordable CD Rom drive. Which I don't have. AM>VI>AM>VI>can play CD Roms but can't record them. AM>VI>AM>Buy A USED CD-R (you can't find A old IDE) for almost dirt cheap AM>VI>Are there any of those on the market already? I thought CD-R AM>VI>technology was so new that you could not find a used CD-R drive on the AM>VI>market. AM>New?? far from new (CD recorders have been on the market for some time AM>now) I remember them as far back as 1992. True, and with the new CD-R-W (rewritable cd roms) coming out, a used cd rom recordable may be very reasonably priced. * OLX 2.1 TD * Fatal database error #10070-late for work Date: Friday, March 6, 1998 5:27pm Forum: Computing From: Steve C Msg#: 745229 To: Amiga Re: quoting (Reply to #745191, Reply to #745148, Reply to #745126, R*) (1 reply) >SC>I believe you are currently running a pentium 66, right? >SC>You can probably upgrade the memory for a small price. (my puter takes >SC>30 pin memory which is harder to obtain, and I found a place that has >SC>for $20 for a 4MB chip, so for $80 I can put 16MB in it, plus leave th >SC>4 1MB chips in the second bank for a total of 20MB) >SC>Yours should be even cheaper if you want to keep the puter without >SC>upgrading the processer. AM>$20 is too much money for A 4meg 30pin SIMM (I guess they could get away AM>with it- if they are ne (but I doubt it). AM>4meg 30pin SIMMS only sell for like $8 - $10 on the used market AM>I'm tellin ya (in the computer market) used or new (is pretty much the AM>samething) Any suggestions on where in Brooklyn (preferably Bay Ridge-Coney Island) or Manhattan (preferably midtown) I can but used simms? AM>Things like monitors (are always smart ta buy new) cuz, you figure thats AM>the one thing your gonna have for Awhile ;-) AM>but everything else, ie: Ram, Motherboards/CPU's,etc.... (I say by USED) AM>if you know what your buyin ;-) * OLX 2.1 TD * The purpose of life is joy.-R Raccoon Date: Friday, March 6, 1998 5:27pm Forum: Computing From: Steve C Msg#: 745230 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #745205, Reply to #745155, Reply to #745143, R*) (1 reply) VI>She says that it takes some getting used to. And it still makes VI>errors. She has been told by the tech support people of the software VI>company that the software has a hard time with her because she has a VI>bit of a NY accent. :) VI>She sounds prefectly normal to me, btw. :) Don't give me that nonsense :) New Yorkers don't have accents, everyone else does! VI>$700 for a 200 Mhz and 32 mb RAM and 3 gigs??? That sounds almost too VI>good to be true!! If it's real, give me the number! :) I just saw one with pentiun 233MMX, 32MB ram, 6.6Gig HD, 16x CD-Rom, fax/modem, 15" color monitor color printer and color scanner for $548. That has to be a refurbished product or they're trying a bait and switch. * OLX 2.1 TD * This starship brakes for black holes & Ferenghi Nightspot Date: Friday, March 6, 1998 6:46pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745232 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #745211, Reply to #745189, Reply to #745146, R*) Nope, far from cuting edge (well some of the new ones are pretty NICE) but in general CD-recorders have been around for years.. Date: Friday, March 6, 1998 6:48pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745233 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #745212, Reply to #745191, Reply to #745148, R*) (1 reply) VI>AM>Things like monitors (are always smart ta buy new) cuz, you figure thats VI>AM>the one thing your gonna have for Awhile ;-) VI>AM>but everything else, ie: Ram, Motherboards/CPU's,etc.... (I say by USED) VI>AM>if you know what your buyin ;-) VI>But that's the problem in a nutshell, I don't know enough to be able to VI>judge the good stuff from the turkeys. I have to rely on a reputable VI>dealer. I can tell you this (In newyorkcity!) %95 of the computer dealers (SELL USED STUFF AS NEW) Date: Friday, March 6, 1998 6:53pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745234 To: Steve C Re: quoting (Reply to #745229, Reply to #745191, Reply to #745148, R*) SC>AM>with it- if they are ne (but I doubt it). SC>AM>4meg 30pin SIMMS only sell for like $8 - $10 on the used market SC>AM>I'm tellin ya (in the computer market) used or new (is pretty much the SC>AM>samething) SC>Any suggestions on where in Brooklyn (preferably Bay Ridge-Coney Island) SC>or Manhattan (preferably midtown) I can but used simms? SC>AM>Things like monitors (are always smart ta buy new) cuz, you figure thats SC>AM>the one thing your gonna have for Awhile ;-) SC>AM>but everything else, ie: Ram, Motherboards/CPU's,etc.... (I say by USED) SC>AM>if you know what your buyin ;-) SC> * OLX 2.1 TD * The purpose of life is joy.-R Raccoon I buy all of my stuff from "Wholesale dealers/computer shows" & on the FIDO NET You should find A BBS which has the FIDO-NET forsale ECHOs (I know A BBS in long island which has the FIDO-NET) there are A few brooklyn BBS's also Date: Friday, March 6, 1998 8:09pm Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 745235 To: Editor Re: quoting (Reply to #745216, Reply to #745205, Reply to #745155, R*) (1 reply) ED>V >She says that it takes some getting used to. And it still makes ED>V >errors. She has been told by the tech support people of the software ED>V >company that the software has a hard time with her because she has a ED>V >bit of a NY accent. :) ED>V > ED>V >She sounds prefectly normal to me, btw. :) ED>Now that shit really pisses me off. What a patent, gold plated load of ED>bullshit. Speech rec technology is miles from perfect, but whether it works ED>or not has little to do with a NY accent. SR software is moving off the ED>shelves at record speed, but it is MILES from perfect. Well talk to the tech support people at Dragon Dictate. According to them, your accent DOES matter. They said they have the MOST problems with people from Texas! ED>The increases in CPU speed are going to help, but there are still ED>technological breakthroughs to be made. Speech recognition in human beings ED>is highly context sensitive. SR software has solved the easy part, pattern ED>recognition, but there is an ambiguity to any pattern, the most obvious ED>being homonyms, but accents and personal vagaries in pronunciation are more ED>serious problems. The SR software comes up with a series of hits on the ED>pattern, with varying levels of confidence. It then passes these hits ED>through a set of grammars, rules relating the hits together, to see which ED>combination of hits, probabilities and rules give the best fit. The second ED>part represents a crude attempt at using context sensitivity. As CPU speeds ED>go up, the pattern matching will get better. Also, since the algorithms ED>work bass ackwards, they run until they reach an acceptable confidence ED>level OR run out of time, the algorithm can make a more thorough search ED>before presenting its answer. ED>New York accent. Blathering idiot. If you can't tell a good lie you should ED>just shut up. Or better still watch the next White House press conference ED>and learn from your betters. It sounded credible to me. :) ED>V >ED>Yup... but with the prices I'm seeing, that may not be worth it eit ED>V >ED>just got an email ad from one of those I call a "clone clone" opera ED>V >ED>$700 for a 200Mhz, CD ROM, 32mb RAM, 3 gig disk, modem and W95 load ED>V >ED>about everything but a keyboard and monitor. You've got to wonder a ED>V >ED>this, given that the modem has got to cost $100 and the disk has to ED>V >ED>$200+. If you've got the stomach for putting up with the idiosynchr ED>V >ED>such a patchwork quilt its a good price. But I'd rather be USING th ED>V >ED>machine than fine tuning it. ED>V > ED>V >$700 for a 200 Mhz and 32 mb RAM and 3 gigs??? That sounds almost too ED>V >good to be true!! If it's real, give me the number! :) ED>It was real, but it smelled like one of those things I call a clone, clone, ED>clone. I'm sure I'll get another email ad, and I'll save it for you. But ED>please be careful. Each of these machines tends to be one of a kind. When ED>they work, they are splendid, and when they don't, you will begin to ED>understand why IBM charges more. I suspect if you go into one of those ED>local computer shops, nowadays invariably run by an oriental family, and ED>ask for their pricing, you get something similar. Even better, if they are ED>near your home, it will save you a ton of grief if it doesn't work. Believe me, I wouldn't buy something unless it was a name I recognized. Sort of like the Syms ad, if you know what I mean. :) ED>--- ED> þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Friday, March 6, 1998 8:10pm Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 745236 To: Steve C Re: quoting (Reply to #745230, Reply to #745205, Reply to #745155, R*) SC>VI>She says that it takes some getting used to. And it still makes SC>VI>errors. She has been told by the tech support people of the software SC>VI>company that the software has a hard time with her because she has a SC>VI>bit of a NY accent. :) SC>VI>She sounds prefectly normal to me, btw. :) SC>Don't give me that nonsense :) SC>New Yorkers don't have accents, everyone else does! After all, WE are the center of the universe! :) SC>VI>$700 for a 200 Mhz and 32 mb RAM and 3 gigs??? That sounds almost too SC>VI>good to be true!! If it's real, give me the number! :) SC>I just saw one with pentiun 233MMX, 32MB ram, 6.6Gig HD, 16x CD-Rom, SC>fax/modem, 15" color monitor color printer and color scanner for $548. SC>That has to be a refurbished product or they're trying a bait and SC>switch. Bait and switch would be my first choice. Date: Friday, March 6, 1998 8:11pm Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 745237 To: Amiga Re: quoting (Reply to #745233, Reply to #745212, Reply to #745191, R*) AM>VI>AM>Things like monitors (are always smart ta buy new) cuz, you figure tha AM>VI>AM>the one thing your gonna have for Awhile ;-) AM>VI>AM>but everything else, ie: Ram, Motherboards/CPU's,etc.... (I say by USE AM>VI>AM>if you know what your buyin ;-) AM>VI>But that's the problem in a nutshell, I don't know enough to be able to AM>VI>judge the good stuff from the turkeys. I have to rely on a reputable AM>VI>dealer. AM>I can tell you this (In newyorkcity!) %95 of the computer dealers (SELL AM>USED STUFF AS NEW) Somehow that doesn't surprise me. Date: Friday, March 6, 1998 10:00pm Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 745245 To: Steve C Re: quoting (Reply to #745226, Reply to #745215, Reply to #745176, R*) SC>True, but after the problems IBM had with licensing the microchannel SC>architecture bus (MCA) I would hope they wouldn't be THAT stupid again SC> SC>My guess is that they will work out most of the bugs and then release SC>it as a Cyrix chip, hoping to take some market share away from Intel. Maybe, I wouldn't bet either way yet. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Friday, March 6, 1998 10:00pm Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 745246 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #745235, Reply to #745216, Reply to #745205, R*) (1 reply) V >ED>V >She says that it takes some getting used to. And it still makes V >ED>V >errors. She has been told by the tech support people of the sof V >ED>V >company that the software has a hard time with her because she h V >ED>V >bit of a NY accent. :) V >ED>V > V >ED>V >She sounds prefectly normal to me, btw. :) V > V >ED>Now that shit really pisses me off. What a patent, gold plated load V >ED>bullshit. Speech rec technology is miles from perfect, but whether V >ED>or not has little to do with a NY accent. SR software is moving off V >ED>shelves at record speed, but it is MILES from perfect. V > V >Well talk to the tech support people at Dragon Dictate. According to V >them, your accent DOES matter. They said they have the MOST problems V >with people from Texas! Oh? I thought it was a New York accent. Perhaps it only works for people born between NW 5th and NW 18th Street in DC? They have oversold the product. V >ED>It was real, but it smelled like one of those things I call a clone V >ED>clone. I'm sure I'll get another email ad, and I'll save it for you V >ED>please be careful. Each of these machines tends to be one of a kind V >ED>they work, they are splendid, and when they don't, you will begin t V >ED>understand why IBM charges more. I suspect if you go into one of th V >ED>local computer shops, nowadays invariably run by an oriental family V >ED>ask for their pricing, you get something similar. Even better, if t V >ED>near your home, it will save you a ton of grief if it doesn't work. V > V >Believe me, I wouldn't buy something unless it was a name I recognized V > Sort of like the Syms ad, if you know what I mean. :) Smart move. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Saturday, March 7, 1998 6:51am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 745252 To: Editor Re: quoting (Reply to #745246, Reply to #745235, Reply to #745216, R*) ED>V >ED>V >She says that it takes some getting used to. And it still makes ED>V >ED>V >errors. She has been told by the tech support people of the sof ED>V >ED>V >company that the software has a hard time with her because she h ED>V >ED>V >bit of a NY accent. :) ED>V >ED>V > ED>V >ED>V >She sounds prefectly normal to me, btw. :) ED>V > ED>V >ED>Now that shit really pisses me off. What a patent, gold plated load ED>V >ED>bullshit. Speech rec technology is miles from perfect, but whether ED>V >ED>or not has little to do with a NY accent. SR software is moving off ED>V >ED>shelves at record speed, but it is MILES from perfect. ED>V > ED>V >Well talk to the tech support people at Dragon Dictate. According to ED>V >them, your accent DOES matter. They said they have the MOST problems ED>V >with people from Texas! ED>Oh? I thought it was a New York accent. Perhaps it only works for people ED>born between NW 5th and NW 18th Street in DC? They have oversold the ED>product. Perhaps that's the truth. :) ED>V >ED>It was real, but it smelled like one of those things I call a clone ED>V >ED>clone. I'm sure I'll get another email ad, and I'll save it for you ED>V >ED>please be careful. Each of these machines tends to be one of a kind ED>V >ED>they work, they are splendid, and when they don't, you will begin t ED>V >ED>understand why IBM charges more. I suspect if you go into one of th ED>V >ED>local computer shops, nowadays invariably run by an oriental family ED>V >ED>ask for their pricing, you get something similar. Even better, if t ED>V >ED>near your home, it will save you a ton of grief if it doesn't work. ED>V > ED>V >Believe me, I wouldn't buy something unless it was a name I recognized ED>V > Sort of like the Syms ad, if you know what I mean. :) ED>Smart move. I try to be smart, especially when it comes to a major investment. :) Date: Saturday, March 7, 1998 11:39pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745263 To: ** ALL ** Re: Any got A old mobo/cpu I'm looking for A old 486DX-66 motherboard w/CPU It would be nice if the motherboard supports DX-4 & Cyrix 586 cpu's thats about it.. I could use it to put A LOCAL BBS up ;-) email me if you have something forsale (or if you wish to donate) ;-) Date: Monday, March 9, 1998 11:49am Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 745271 To: Editor Re: quoting (Reply to #745172, Reply to #745153, Reply to #745103, R*) When I purchased this Apple system is was "top" for them and had the most therapy programs I could utilize with my patients. IBM had minimal at that time. Little did I know that today it would be completely reversed. Date: Monday, March 9, 1998 11:50am Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 745272 To: Steve C Re: quoting (Reply to #745180, Reply to #745163, Reply to #745124, R*) SC>SF>SC>SF>And the very cheap systems are not really worth the investment. SC>SF>SC>Well, if you really want to go bottom line, you can get an AST P100 wi SC>SF>SC>16MB Ram, 1.2GB hard drive and a 4x CD-Rom for $399 from Micro Exchang SC>SF>SC>(http://www.microexch.com), but then again that will only be good enou SC>SF>SC>for BBS and light web surfing. SC>SF>Thanks for the specific information. SC>No problem. I happened to be reading it just before reading my messages SC>so it was fresh in my mind. SC> * OLX 2.1 TD * ...Tag line thievery...On the next Geraldo! As is said....timing is everything. Date: Monday, March 9, 1998 11:51am Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 745273 To: Steve C Re: quoting (Reply to #745181, Reply to #745164, Reply to #745130, R*) SC>SF>SC>Not to fear though, If you are looking into a new system, most come wi SC>SF>SC>at least a 28.8 modem and if not they are pretty reasonably priced. SC>SF>The couple of stores I have visited insist that nothing less than a 36 SC>SF>modem will work for web surfing, but then again they are looking to SC>SF>increase their sales. SC>They're trying to make a sale. SC>I'm using a 14.4, and while I would like a faster modem, it does SC>everything I currently need. SC> * OLX 2.1 TD * Readers or the lost .ARC I am learning quickly to resist sales pitches. Date: Monday, March 9, 1998 11:54am Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 745274 To: Amiga Re: quoting (Reply to #745192, Reply to #745153, Reply to #745103, R*) (1 reply) AM>SF>ED>--- AM>SF>ED> þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy AM>SF>I was not being serious. I am fully aware that my present system, AM>SF>although "top of the line" for Apple at the time of purchase was shortly AM>SF>thereafter abandoned by Apple and was never designed to interact with AM>SF>today's technology. AM>Not ture- not true.. AM>If your computer can be used as A terminal to access the INTERNET? AM>then your computer can interact with todays technology.. AM>We are living in the INFORMATION AGE! (not that GRAPHICS AGE) AM>sure, graphics make things look NICE & COOL! AM>Aslong as you can access the "INFORMATION" thats all that matter AM>s So far I have been limited to ever shrinking bbs's who have Apple access, however, I am hoping some of your advice will help. Date: Monday, March 9, 1998 11:55am Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 745275 To: Amiga Re: quoting (Reply to #745195, Reply to #745160, Reply to #745117, R*) Received and acted upon. THANKS! Date: Monday, March 9, 1998 11:57am Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 745276 To: Amiga Re: PC Prices (Reply to #745196, Reply to #745162, Reply to #745119, R*) (1 reply) Why such a difference between suggested minimum system and the actual minimum that works? Date: Monday, March 9, 1998 11:58am Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 745277 To: Amiga Re: quoting (Reply to #745197, Reply to #745164, Reply to #745130, R*) AM>SF>SC>SF>Now this all makes more sense. By the way, why do you keep picking AM>SF>SC>SF>poor 2400 modem that I am using right now. AM>SF>SC>Because, while a 2400 is good enough for BBS's, E_Mail and news lists, AM>SF>SC>web surfing usually offers rich graphics that will either be unavailab AM>SF>SC>to you or take a long time to load.(even with my 14.4 some pages AM>SF>SC>seem to take forever to load.) AM>SF>SC>Not to fear though, If you are looking into a new system, most come wi AM>SF>SC>at least a 28.8 modem and if not they are pretty reasonably priced. AM>SF>SC> * OLX 2.1 TD * Pardon Me, But Would You Have Any Blue Poupon? AM>SF>The couple of stores I have visited insist that nothing less than a 36 AM>SF>modem will work for web surfing, but then again they are looking to AM>SF>increase their sales. AM>Thats what they all SAY! (man) those guys are only out ta make A BUCK! AM>if you ask them if A 486 could get on the INTERNET- they would tell you AM>no! (man) most of those guys at computer stores are full of crap! AM>NEVER lissen ta those guys!! (thats why I always buy my stuff from AM>shows/wholesale or on the USED-MARKET!) AM>Hehehe, and whats funny about that is- in some areas (the phone lines) AM>can't even handle 28.8 (so who was that sales person try ta fool) AM>p/s: ofcourse in NYC- our phone-lines are pretty up ta speed Thanks to advice I am learning to sift through the hype. Date: Monday, March 9, 1998 1:02pm Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 745278 To: Amiga Re: quoting (Reply to #745199, Reply to #745168, Reply to #745167, R*) AM>SF>NI>--- AM>SF>NI> þ OLX 2.1 TD þ Press any key to continue or any other key to quit AM>SF>I fully realize that the advice Iget here is far different than the AM>SF>"advice" I get at a computer store. AM>ie: We have nothing ta gain- by telling you the TRUTH ;-) vs Computer AM>sales people who have everything ta gain by telling you LIES :-( And that makes all the difference. Date: Monday, March 9, 1998 1:05pm Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 745279 To: Vida Re: quoting (Reply to #745205, Reply to #745155, Reply to #745143, R*) VI> VI>ED>V >ED>V >A lawyer friend of mine just bought a new computer with Speech VI>ED>V >recognition technology. She's a solo practioner and thought that in VI>ED>V >the long run it would be more cost efficient than having to pay for a VI>ED>V >secretary. VI>ED>Its still pretty new, but its there. You'll see more of it every day. Lik VI>ED>I said, it really eats CPU, especially if its speaker independent VI>ED>recognition. But the current crop of stuff we are seeing is speaker VI>ED>dependent variety, meaning it only guarentees accuracy for the one person VI>ED>it trained with. I hear those are doing pretty well. VI>She says that it takes some getting used to. And it still makes VI>errors. She has been told by the tech support people of the software VI>company that the software has a hard time with her because she has a VI>bit of a NY accent. :) VI>She sounds prefectly normal to me, btw. :) VI>ED>V >ED>So... it depends on what you need. I think buying anything slower t VI>ED>V >ED>Mhz is something you are going to regret. VI>ED>V > VI>ED>V >Or for that matter, it doesn't pay to upgrade your system unless you VI>ED>V >upgrade to at least 200 Mhz and 32 RAM, right? VI>ED>Yup... but with the prices I'm seeing, that may not be worth it either. I VI>ED>just got an email ad from one of those I call a "clone clone" operation. VI>ED>$700 for a 200Mhz, CD ROM, 32mb RAM, 3 gig disk, modem and W95 loaded. Ju VI>ED>about everything but a keyboard and monitor. You've got to wonder about VI>ED>this, given that the modem has got to cost $100 and the disk has to cost VI>ED>$200+. If you've got the stomach for putting up with the idiosynchrasies VI>ED>such a patchwork quilt its a good price. But I'd rather be USING the VI>ED>machine than fine tuning it. VI>$700 for a 200 Mhz and 32 mb RAM and 3 gigs??? That sounds almost too VI>good to be true!! If it's real, give me the number! :) Her NY accent may involve dropping some final sounds, adding some unwritten sounds, etc. thus affecting the speech recognition ability of the program. Date: Monday, March 9, 1998 1:07pm Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 745280 To: Nightbird Re: quoting (Reply to #745221, Reply to #745168, Reply to #745167, R*) (1 reply) NI>SF>I>SF>C>SF>Now this all makes more sense. By the way, why do you keep pick NI>SF>NI>SF>SC>SF>poor 2400 modem that I am using right now. NI>SF>NI>SF>SC>Because, while a 2400 is good enough for BBS's, E_Mail and news NI>SF>NI>SF>SC>web surfing usually offers rich graphics that will either be una NI>SF>NI>SF>SC>to you or take a long time to load.(even with my 14.4 some pages NI>SF>NI>SF>SC>seem to take forever to load.) NI>SF>NI>SF>SC>Not to fear though, If you are looking into a new system, most c NI>SF>NI>SF>SC>at least a 28.8 modem and if not they are pretty reasonably pric NI>SF>NI>SF>SC> * OLX 2.1 TD * Pardon Me, But Would You Have Any Blue Poupon? NI>SF>NI>SF>The couple of stores I have visited insist that nothing less than a NI>SF>NI>SF>modem will work for web surfing, but then again they are looking to NI>SF>NI>SF>increase their sales. NI>SF>NI>Steve & I use a 14.4 to surf the web, don't get me wrong, a 33.6 would NI>SF>NI>be great but I need to upgrade my computer first. NI>SF>NI>--- NI>SF>NI> þ OLX 2.1 TD þ Press any key to continue or any other key to quit NI>SF>I fully realize that the advice Iget here is far different than the NI>SF>"advice" I get at a computer store. NI>Duh, they're trying to sell you something you might not really need. NI>--- NI> þ OLX 2.1 TD þ Hello, I am part number ³ºÞº³º³Û³ºÝ³ºÝ³³ As I have quickly learned! Date: Monday, March 9, 1998 5:40pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745286 To: Steve Flur Re: quoting (Reply to #745274, Reply to #745192, Reply to #745153, R*) (1 reply) SF>AM>SF>ED>--- SF>AM>SF>ED> þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy SF>AM>SF>I was not being serious. I am fully aware that my present system, SF>AM>SF>although "top of the line" for Apple at the time of purchase was short AF>AM>SF>thereafter abandoned by Apple and was never designed to interact with SF>AM>SF>today's technology. SF>AM>Not ture- not true.. SF>AM>If your computer can be used as A terminal to access the INTERNET? SF>AM>then your computer can interact with todays technology.. SF>AM>We are living in the INFORMATION AGE! (not that GRAPHICS AGE) SF>AM>sure, graphics make things look NICE & COOL! SF>AM>Aslong as you can access the "INFORMATION" thats all that matter SF>AM>s SF>So far I have been limited to ever shrinking bbs's who have Apple SF>access, however, I am hoping some of your advice will help. Sure will ;-) You'll be able to access the "Information Super Highway" ;-) - just like I use ta do on my Commodore 64 & 1200bps modem ;-) Date: Monday, March 9, 1998 6:07pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745287 To: Steve Flur Re: PC Prices (Reply to #745276, Reply to #745196, Reply to #745162, R*) (1 reply) SF>Why such a difference between suggested minimum system and the actual SF>minimum that works? Aslo- it's like the ole sayin (the Software comapanies & Hardware makers work side by side / hand & hand) too RIP the public off! how does it work? The hardware makers only want you buyin their top dollar hardware... While the software makers only want you to buy their NEW software... So what other way to make it work- then to have the hardware makers tell you: You must buy our "New top dollar HARDWARE" if you wanna be able to run the newest & best software Then the software makers tell you: If you wanna be able to run our "New software" you must have the latest TOP dollar HARDWARE what they don't say tell ya is- (even A old duster computer can run the same software) :-( Date: Tuesday, March 10, 1998 8:31am Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 745295 To: Amiga Re: quoting (Reply to #745286, Reply to #745274, Reply to #745192, R*) AM>SF>AM>SF>ED>--- AM>SF>AM>SF>ED> þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy AM>SF>AM>SF>I was not being serious. I am fully aware that my present system, AM>SF>AM>SF>although "top of the line" for Apple at the time of purchase was sh AM>AF>AM>SF>thereafter abandoned by Apple and was never designed to interact wi AM>SF>AM>SF>today's technology. AM>SF>AM>Not ture- not true.. AM>SF>AM>If your computer can be used as A terminal to access the INTERNET? AM>SF>AM>then your computer can interact with todays technology.. AM>SF>AM>We are living in the INFORMATION AGE! (not that GRAPHICS AGE) AM>SF>AM>sure, graphics make things look NICE & COOL! AM>SF>AM>Aslong as you can access the "INFORMATION" thats all that matter AM>SF>AM>s AM>SF>So far I have been limited to ever shrinking bbs's who have Apple AM>SF>access, however, I am hoping some of your advice will help. AM>Sure will ;-) AM>You'll be able to access the "Information Super Highway" ;-) - just like AM>I use ta do on my Commodore 64 & 1200bps modem ;-) As soon as I log back on I will let you know what I think. Date: Tuesday, March 10, 1998 8:32am Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 745296 To: Amiga Re: PC Prices (Reply to #745287, Reply to #745276, Reply to #745196, R*) (1 reply) AM>SF>Why such a difference between suggested minimum system and the actual AM>SF>minimum that works? AM>Aslo- it's like the ole sayin (the Software comapanies & Hardware makers AM>work side by side / hand & hand) too RIP the public off! AM>how does it work? AM>The hardware makers only want you buyin their top dollar hardware... AM>While the software makers only want you to buy their NEW software... AM>So what other way to make it work- then to have the hardware makers tell AM>you: You must buy our "New top dollar HARDWARE" if you wanna be able to AM>run the newest & best software AM>Then the software makers tell you: If you wanna be able to run our "New AM>software" you must have the latest TOP dollar HARDWARE AM>what they don't say tell ya is- (even A old duster computer can run the AM>same software) :-( Sounds like a perfect marketing strategy. Date: Tuesday, March 10, 1998 10:00am Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 745298 To: Vida Re: Clone - clones (2 replies) Here is the ad. The prices are absolutely seductive, and I'm sure the guy is honest, but CAVEAT EMPTOR. Make sure you understand what the warrantee means. Make sure the guy has been around long enough so that you can count on their being there for the full warrantee period. Figure out who you are going to ask for help if some new piece of software goes flakey. Alot to worry about, but look at those prices. Even without a monitor, and maybe without a keyboard.... Note also that these are not Intel chips. Does it matter, most of the time not. Its a question of what are you willing to put up with if you install a new piece of software and it doesn't work quite right. Oh yes... these guys are located in Culver City, CA, near Los Angeles I think. The "warrantee" might mean shipping it back. **** http://www.pcshoppingplanet.com **** 1-888-WE-UPGRADE **** - PC #10 200 MMX, Multimedia System_______________$ 700.00 Full multimedia System, based on the Cyrix PR-200 MMX CPU. With 16MB EDO of memory, 2.0 GB hard drive, 16X CD ROM, 33.6 Kbps Modem, 80 W Speakers and Windows 95. (monitor not included) - PC #12 233 MMX Multimedia System________________$ 899.00 Based on the AMD K6 233 MHz MMX, with 32MB EDO, 3.2 GB Hard Drive, 24X CD ROM, 33.6 Modem, 80 W Speakers, Windows 95 installed and 1 year Warranty. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Tuesday, March 10, 1998 10:01am Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 745299 To: Steve Flur Re: PC Prices (Reply to #745296, Reply to #745287, Reply to #745276, R*) (2 replies) SF>AM>So what other way to make it work- then to have the hardware makers SF>AM>you: You must buy our "New top dollar HARDWARE" if you wanna be abl SF>AM>run the newest & best software SF> SF>AM>Then the software makers tell you: If you wanna be able to run our SF>AM>software" you must have the latest TOP dollar HARDWARE SF> SF>AM>what they don't say tell ya is- (even A old duster computer can run SF>AM>same software) :-( SF>Sounds like a perfect marketing strategy. Also sounds wrong. Depends on what your time is worth to you. Yesterday someone here received an Excell spreadsheet attached to an email. They have a 66Mhz, 24mb RAM, 400mb disk IBM Valuepoint system. They brought up Netscape mail, clicked on the attachment, and VOILA!, 85 minutes later, not kidding, 85 minutes later, the spreadsheet appeared. This takes about 15 seconds on my system. (A pokey 100Mhz with 2bg of disk and 48mb of RAM.) To paraphrase the bearded guy, "No computer is an island unto itself". Are you going to exchange files with someone? Better be able to read them. Like to look at photographs on the web? Better bet a faster modem. Do alot of writing, better get a good word processing program. And so on. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Tuesday, March 10, 1998 11:16am Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 745300 To: Editor Re: PC Prices (Reply to #745299, Reply to #745296, Reply to #745287, R*) ED>SF>AM>So what other way to make it work- then to have the hardware makers ED>SF>AM>you: You must buy our "New top dollar HARDWARE" if you wanna be abl ED>SF>AM>run the newest & best software ED>SF> ED>SF>AM>Then the software makers tell you: If you wanna be able to run our ED>SF>AM>software" you must have the latest TOP dollar HARDWARE ED>SF> ED>SF>AM>what they don't say tell ya is- (even A old duster computer can run ED>SF>AM>same software) :-( ED>SF>Sounds like a perfect marketing strategy. ED>Also sounds wrong. Depends on what your time is worth to you. ED>Yesterday someone here received an Excell spreadsheet attached to an email. ED>They have a 66Mhz, 24mb RAM, 400mb disk IBM Valuepoint system. They brought ED>up Netscape mail, clicked on the attachment, and VOILA!, 85 minutes later, ED>not kidding, 85 minutes later, the spreadsheet appeared. This takes about ED>15 seconds on my system. (A pokey 100Mhz with 2bg of disk and 48mb of RAM.) ED>To paraphrase the bearded guy, "No computer is an island unto itself". Are ED>you going to exchange files with someone? Better be able to read them. Like ED>to look at photographs on the web? Better bet a faster modem. Do alot of ED>writing, better get a good word processing program. And so on. ED>--- ED> þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy As you and others have said, when purchasing a system one must be aware of how it will be used so as not to overbuy nor underbuy. Date: Tuesday, March 10, 1998 11:43am Forum: Computing From: Nightbird Msg#: 745302 To: Steve Flur Re: quoting (Reply to #745280, Reply to #745221, Reply to #745168, R*) (1 reply) SF>NI>SF>I fully realize that the advice Iget here is far different than the SF>NI>SF>"advice" I get at a computer store. SF>NI>Duh, they're trying to sell you something you might not really need. SF>NI>--- SF>As I have quickly learned! I know all too well, now I have to get Steve to go to a computer show and get more memory for our computer. --- þ OLX 2.1 TD þ Forewarned is forearmed, which is half an octopus. - Pogo Date: Tuesday, March 10, 1998 1:34pm Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 745303 To: Nightbird Re: quoting (Reply to #745302, Reply to #745280, Reply to #745221, R*) (1 reply) NI>SF>NI>SF>I fully realize that the advice Iget here is far different than the NI>SF>NI>SF>"advice" I get at a computer store. NI>SF>NI>Duh, they're trying to sell you something you might not really need. NI>SF>NI>--- NI>SF>As I have quickly learned! NI>I know all too well, now I have to get Steve to go to a computer show NI>and get more memory for our computer. NI>--- NI> þ OLX 2.1 TD þ Forewarned is forearmed, which is half an octopus. - Pogo I hope he does that faster than setting up your cable installation. Date: Tuesday, March 10, 1998 7:57pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745304 To: Editor Re: Clone - clones (Reply to #745298) ED>- PC #10 200 MMX, Multimedia System_______________$ 700.00 ED> Full multimedia System, based on the Cyrix PR-200 ED> MMX CPU. With 16MB EDO of memory, 2.0 GB hard drive, ED> 16X CD ROM, 33.6 Kbps Modem, 80 W Speakers and ED> Windows 95. (monitor not included) ED>- PC #12 233 MMX Multimedia System________________$ 899.00 ED> Based on the AMD K6 233 MHz MMX, with 32MB EDO, ED> 3.2 GB Hard Drive, 24X CD ROM, 33.6 Modem, 80 W ED> Speakers, Windows 95 installed and 1 year Warranty. ED>--- ED> þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy If these systems are brand-new? (I guess they can get away with those prices) as for why those system seem "LOW" in price (is because they are not "BIG NAME" intel.. I still think the price for the (CYRIX) is A bit much (but being that the system should be NEW) and does seem to be pretty complete. The 233MMX w/ AMD (seems like A pretty good deal) * I would'nt buy it myself-- but for anyone who can't build their own machine (it might be something worth looking into).. Date: Tuesday, March 10, 1998 8:02pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745305 To: Editor Re: PC Prices (Reply to #745299, Reply to #745296, Reply to #745287, R*) ED>SF>Sounds like a perfect marketing strategy. ED>Also sounds wrong. Depends on what your time is worth to you. ED>Yesterday someone here received an Excell spreadsheet attached to an email. ED>They have a 66Mhz, 24mb RAM, 400mb disk IBM Valuepoint system. They brought ED>up Netscape mail, clicked on the attachment, and VOILA!, 85 minutes later, ED>not kidding, 85 minutes later, the spreadsheet appeared. This takes about ED>15 seconds on my system. (A pokey 100Mhz with 2bg of disk and 48mb of RAM.) ED>To paraphrase the bearded guy, "No computer is an island unto itself". Are ED>you going to exchange files with someone? Better be able to read them. Like ED>to look at photographs on the web? Better bet a faster modem. Do alot of ED>writing, better get a good word processing program. And so on. ED>--- ED> þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy yeah, but thats just it... Somethings will almost require (A super fast machine).. (like the example you gave).. Date: Wednesday, March 11, 1998 2:26am Forum: Computing From: Conundrum Msg#: 745314 To: Editor Re: quoting (Reply to #745158, Reply to #745145, Reply to #745114, R*) (1 reply) ER>I don't think we are going to see as dramatic a jump again. Win 3.1 was ED>amazing. It was based on DOS, which was based on CPM which was developed in ED>the 70s!!!!! W95 was really the first fundamental change in operating ED>systems since the PC came out. I'm not sure what the intentions are for Umm. W95 was a change in operating systems like Dos was a new idea. Unix was a new concept in Operating systems. VM/CMS (when it came out) was a new concept in operating systems. Hell, Xerox Parc aside, the Mac was a new concept. But windows 95? A more repackaged set of pre-existing concepts I haven't seen. Give me a system with separation between Os (and peices within same), windowing system, window manager (the program which decides where the windows actually go, and displays wigets for them), and application over anything Microsoft has done, any day of the week. Date: Wednesday, March 11, 1998 2:28am Forum: Computing From: Conundrum Msg#: 745315 To: Editor Re: quoting (Reply to #745172, Reply to #745153, Reply to #745103, R*) (1 reply) ED>You know, people ask me why I don't like Apple, and you have just ED>summarized it. They have abandoned their users several time. We had a ED>pretty fair system written on the Apple II some years ago. When the Apple ED>III came out, we found that there was no portability. So we gritted our ED>teeth and rewrote it. You may not remember the Apple III. It came and went ED>pretty quickly because it was pretty awful, and then came Lisa, ED>incompatible, and finally Mac, incompatible. They haven't stopped, you know -- they just abandoned the Neuton. Of course, this is largely because of Jobs, in fact, most of these are -- the man plays corporate pool with a vengance, and sabotages anything he isn't responsible for. Date: Wednesday, March 11, 1998 6:31am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 745318 To: Editor Re: Clone - clones (Reply to #745298) ED>Here is the ad. The prices are absolutely seductive, and I'm sure the guy ED>is honest, but CAVEAT EMPTOR. Thanks for republishing the ad. But caveat emptor is the word. I think I'll pass on this one, since I never heard of these people and the prices are too good! Date: Wednesday, March 11, 1998 11:31am Forum: Computing From: Nightbird Msg#: 745327 To: Steve Flur Re: quoting (Reply to #745303, Reply to #745302, Reply to #745280, R*) (1 reply) SF>I>SF>NI>SF>I fully realize that the advice Iget here is far different than t SF>NI>SF>NI>SF>"advice" I get at a computer store. SF>NI>SF>NI>Duh, they're trying to sell you something you might not really need SF>NI>SF>NI>--- SF>NI>SF>As I have quickly learned! SF>NI>I know all too well, now I have to get Steve to go to a computer show SF>NI>and get more memory for our computer. SF>NI>--- SF>NI> þ OLX 2.1 TD þ Forewarned is forearmed, which is half an octopus. - Pogo SF>I hope he does that faster than setting up your cable installation. Actully, now that I'm stuck at home, hopefully we'll get cable soon. --- þ OLX 2.1 TD þ Clinton did NOT kill Princess Diana. Date: Wednesday, March 11, 1998 1:06pm Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 745328 To: Nightbird Re: quoting (Reply to #745327, Reply to #745303, Reply to #745302, R*) NI>SF>I>SF>NI>SF>I fully realize that the advice Iget here is far different tha NI>SF>NI>SF>NI>SF>"advice" I get at a computer store. NI>SF>NI>SF>NI>Duh, they're trying to sell you something you might not really n NI>SF>NI>SF>NI>--- NI>SF>NI>SF>As I have quickly learned! NI>SF>NI>I know all too well, now I have to get Steve to go to a computer show NI>SF>NI>and get more memory for our computer. NI>SF>NI>--- NI>SF>NI> þ OLX 2.1 TD þ Forewarned is forearmed, which is half an octopus. - P NI>SF>I hope he does that faster than setting up your cable installation. NI>Actully, now that I'm stuck at home, hopefully we'll get cable soon. NI>--- NI> þ OLX 2.1 TD þ Clinton did NOT kill Princess Diana. Ahhh......the silver lineing! Date: Wednesday, March 11, 1998 2:08pm Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 745330 To: Conundrum Re: quoting (Reply to #745314, Reply to #745158, Reply to #745145, R*) C >But windows 95? A more repackaged set of pre-existing concepts I C >haven't seen. Give me a system with separation between Os (and peices C >within same), windowing system, window manager (the program which C >decides where the windows actually go, and displays wigets for them), C >and application over anything Microsoft has done, any day of the week. I guess I'm looking from the inside out. DOS I/O and event handling was non-existent. Even with Windows 3.1 on top of it, it was still pretty grim. To me, the decent I/O systemand task dispatching were what made W95 something new. The rest, GUIs, widgets, and so on are just the paint job. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Wednesday, March 11, 1998 2:08pm Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 745331 To: Conundrum Re: quoting (Reply to #745315, Reply to #745172, Reply to #745153, R*) (1 reply) C >ED>You know, people ask me why I don't like Apple, and you have just C >ED>summarized it. They have abandoned their users several time. We had C >ED>pretty fair system written on the Apple II some years ago. When the C >ED>III came out, we found that there was no portability. So we gritted C >ED>teeth and rewrote it. You may not remember the Apple III. It came a C >ED>pretty quickly because it was pretty awful, and then came Lisa, C >ED>incompatible, and finally Mac, incompatible. C > C >They haven't stopped, you know -- they just abandoned the Neuton. C >Of course, this is largely because of Jobs, in fact, most of these are C >-- the man plays corporate pool with a vengance, and sabotages anythin C >he isn't responsible for. I have a friend who did some PR work for Jobs over at Next. There are big egos, and there are world class egos, and then there is Jobs. I can't see how anything gets done around him. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Friday, March 13, 1998 10:03am Forum: Computing From: Sysop Msg#: 745366 To: Vida Re: new machine (Reply to #745205, Reply to #745155, Reply to #745143, R*) (1 reply) VI>$700 for a 200 Mhz and 32 mb RAM and 3 gigs??? That sounds almost too VI>good to be true!! If it's real, give me the number! :) Julia, We had to get a new machine recently, one of our machines bit the dust. We got a great deal, maybe it's something to consider. We got: Packard Bell Pentium 233 MMX 32 meg ram 4.3 gig hd 20x cd rom 56k modem win95, word97, etc for $999. That was a month ago, you could probably get it for less now. The machine is rock solid, very fast, and a real pleasure to use, especially after the interminable waiting with our old 486. We got it from CompuUSA on the net, they shipped it second day air for $35! Date: Sunday, March 15, 1998 6:25pm Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 745382 To: Sysop Re: new machine (Reply to #745366, Reply to #745205, Reply to #745155, R*) SY>VI>$700 for a 200 Mhz and 32 mb RAM and 3 gigs??? That sounds almost too SY>VI>good to be true!! If it's real, give me the number! :) SY>Julia, SY>We had to get a new machine recently, one of our machines bit the dust. SY>We got a great deal, maybe it's something to consider. SY>We got: SY>Packard Bell Pentium 233 MMX SY>32 meg ram SY>4.3 gig hd SY>20x cd rom SY>56k modem SY>win95, word97, etc SY>for $999. That was a month ago, you could probably get it for less now. SY>The machine is rock solid, very fast, and a real pleasure to use, SY>especially after the interminable waiting with our old 486. SY>We got it from CompuUSA on the net, they shipped it second day air for SY>$35! Thanks for the heads up. :) I think I have decided to hang on to my old unit for now. My work situation is so up in the air that I don't want to make any major investments--and I don't know about you but $1000 is a MAJOR investment for me! :) Date: Monday, March 16, 1998 3:05pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745408 To: ** ALL ** Re: If you know some one looking for A Computer (1 reply) The SYSOP over at SMALL TIMES BBS, is selling A pretty decent system (and the price is right!) A great system for anyone who does not yet own A COMPUTER ;-) VI> 10: MO>I also have the same motherboard in a used computer here. VI> IBM DX2/80 11: MO>with 4 megs memory, Cirrus Logic 1m svga card, VI> multi I/O EIDE card, 12: MO>Reveal Sound Card, Reveal 2x CD-ROM VI> drive, 1.44 drive and 170meg Maxtor 13: MO>drive. Asking $200 VI> for it. With used CTX 14" svga monitor, $250. Let 14: MO>me VI> know if you're interested in it. 15: Thats A GOOD DEAL! for $250.00, thats A great deal.. I've seen people selling systems like that- for $500/$700 :-( If you think you want to by the above system? (leave me A message) and I'll ask the sysop of SMALL TIMES- if it's still for sale? (last I heard) it wasn't sold yet.... I would buy it myself (but I'm already gettin A 486dx2/80 mobo/cpu from him ;-) l8r... Date: Wednesday, March 18, 1998 2:20pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745451 To: Amiga Re: If you know some one looking for A Computer (Reply to #745408) AM>The SYSOP over at SMALL TIMES BBS, is selling A pretty decent system AM>(and the price is right!) A great system for anyone who does not yet AM>own A COMPUTER ;-) AM>VI> 10: MO>I also have the same motherboard in a used computer here. AM>VI> IBM DX2/80 11: MO>with 4 megs memory, Cirrus Logic 1m svga card, AM>VI> multi I/O EIDE card, 12: MO>Reveal Sound Card, Reveal 2x CD-ROM AM>VI> drive, 1.44 drive and 170meg Maxtor 13: MO>drive. Asking $200 AM>VI> for it. With used CTX 14" svga monitor, $250. Let 14: MO>me AM>VI> know if you're interested in it. 15: AM>Thats A GOOD DEAL! for $250.00, thats A great deal.. AM>I've seen people selling systems like that- for $500/$700 :-( AM>If you think you want to by the above system? (leave me A message) AM>and I'll ask the sysop of SMALL TIMES- if it's still for sale? AM>(last I heard) it wasn't sold yet.... AM>I would buy it myself (but I'm already gettin A 486dx2/80 mobo/cpu AM>from him ;-) AM>l8r... -----> THIS SYSTEM MAYBE ALREADY SOLD <----- Date: Tuesday, March 31, 1998 11:52am Forum: Computing From: Sysop Msg#: 745623 To: ** ALL ** Re: Donation Needed DONATION NEEDED FOR AFTER HOURS If anyone has an old 486 that they are not using anymore, After Hours needs a new computer. Our bbs machine died around a month ago, and we have been running on our emergency backup 386. You may have noticed that the system is running slower than usual. The real problem is that with this old box, we can't run backups! If something happens to the system, we will lose everything - the accounts, the messages, and the files. If you can donate a 486, it will be much appreciated. Please let me know if you can help. Ed Date: Tuesday, April 7, 1998 12:13am Forum: Computing From: Conundrum Msg#: 745747 To: Editor Re: quoting (Reply to #745331, Reply to #745315, Reply to #745172, R*) ED>C >They haven't stopped, you know -- they just abandoned the Neuton. ED>C >Of course, this is largely because of Jobs, in fact, most of these are ED>C >-- the man plays corporate pool with a vengance, and sabotages anythin ED>C >he isn't responsible for. ED>I have a friend who did some PR work for Jobs over at Next. There are big ED>egos, and there are world class egos, and then there is Jobs. ED>I can't see how anything gets done around him. Near as I can tell, it does, because he genuinely does have a good mind, and has managed to come out with/back a fair number of cool concepts (including the Mac and the NeXT). But boy, oh boy is he a scumbag. See last week's Helen (www.peterzale.com) for a cool outlook on this. On second though, see Helen, period, it's great. Date: Saturday, April 11, 1998 10:33am Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 745812 To: Vida Re: Computers (4 replies) I think prices may be bottoming out. Next week the new chips start shipping and I suspect supplies are winding down. I still can't believe the prices I'm seeing. Some of these systems are so cheap that if you bought the individual components you couldn't meet those prices. I think the cheapest I saw was a custom built 160Mhz, no monitor, no CD, no software, 16mb and 3gig disk for $500. Sheesh! --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Saturday, April 11, 1998 4:22pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745818 To: Editor Re: Computers (Reply to #745812) ED>I think prices may be bottoming out. Next week the new chips start shipping ED>and I suspect supplies are winding down. I still can't believe the prices ED>I'm seeing. Some of these systems are so cheap that if you bought the ED>individual components you couldn't meet those prices. I think the cheapest ED>I saw was a custom built 160Mhz, no monitor, no CD, no software, 16mb and ED>3gig disk for $500. Sheesh! ED>--- ED> þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy To tell you the truth- A 160mhz system isnt even worth $500... I'd say $300.00 or so (TOPS) and even then- I don't know.. because you could get A 200mhz machine for around $300.00 I'm not shocked- not at all.. the current systems are.... now running at 300mhz- so anything less than 200mhz.. IS OUT DATED CRAP (atleast) as far as the HIGH-END computer world goes... PC prices make no sense at all (if you ask me) * People would tell you- than A 386 is out dated.. yet they moght try to sell you that same 386 system for $150 Same goes for 486's- I've seen guys tryin to sell 486's for like $400/$500.... makes no sense..... I just saw someone tryin to sell A 486dx-2/66 motherboard/cpu for about $80.... now if they are selling A 486dx-2/66 for $80!.. they must sell 486dx-4/100's for like $150/$200.., 586/133's for $250/$300 It's like people will still try an SELL old hardware for high prices (even) when the current HARDWARE on the market is gettin cheaper.. Right now- A Pentium 200/Mobo+Cpu is about $200 or so dollars... so going by this... any systems less than 100mhz (ARENT WORTH JACK) I give the MARKET- another 5 months... (then watch) the prices!!! you'll see 166mhz systems selling for less than $300.00.. and Pentium 200 systems for $300.00 or so (at tops) Tell ya the truth! you can get A 166mhz machine for about $200 (just get rid of all the EXTRA CRAP) ie: no WINDOWS, no mouse, etc..... heck you should be able to get A 166mhz machine for about $160- the motherboard alone isnt worth more than $89- the CPU is another $50.00- p/s: I'm still waitin to shake the hand of the person who sells 386's for $20.00 Date: Saturday, April 11, 1998 5:57pm Forum: Computing From: Nightbird Msg#: 745822 To: Editor Re: Computers (Reply to #745812) (1 reply) ED>I think prices may be bottoming out. Next week the new chips start shipping ED>and I suspect supplies are winding down. I still can't believe the prices ED>I'm seeing. Some of these systems are so cheap that if you bought the ED>individual components you couldn't meet those prices. I think the cheapest ED>I saw was a custom built 160Mhz, no monitor, no CD, no software, 16mb and ED>3gig disk for $500. Sheesh! That's because somebody else is building it, it would be around the same price to by the pieces yourself & build your own computer. --- þ OLX 2.1 TD þ if men concieved, abortion would be a sacrament Date: Sunday, April 12, 1998 6:19am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 745825 To: Editor Re: Computers (Reply to #745812) (1 reply) ED>I think prices may be bottoming out. Next week the new chips start shipping ED>and I suspect supplies are winding down. I still can't believe the prices ED>I'm seeing. Some of these systems are so cheap that if you bought the ED>individual components you couldn't meet those prices. I think the cheapest ED>I saw was a custom built 160Mhz, no monitor, no CD, no software, 16mb and ED>3gig disk for $500. Sheesh! Thanks for the heads up. But I think given the fact that I have been spending my money like it grows on trees, I better pass for now! Date: Sunday, April 12, 1998 9:46pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745833 To: Nightbird Re: Computers (Reply to #745822, Reply to #745812) (1 reply) NI>ED>I think prices may be bottoming out. Next week the new chips start shippi NI>ED>and I suspect supplies are winding down. I still can't believe the prices NI>ED>I'm seeing. Some of these systems are so cheap that if you bought the NI>ED>individual components you couldn't meet those prices. I think the cheapes NI>ED>I saw was a custom built 160Mhz, no monitor, no CD, no software, 16mb and NI>ED>3gig disk for $500. Sheesh! NI>That's because somebody else is building it, it would be around the same NI>price to by the pieces yourself & build your own computer. NI>--- NI> þ OLX 2.1 TD þ if men concieved, abortion would be a sacrament Even cheaper if ya build it yourself :) Because you figure- ya gonna get everything (PART BY PART) :) and being that PC parts arent worth much alone... plus with all the CHEAPER parts ie: no-name motherboards/cpu's (non-intel stuff) is so CHEAP! :) Date: Sunday, April 12, 1998 9:48pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745834 To: Vida Re: q (Reply to #745825, Reply to #745812) (1 reply) VI>ED>I think prices may be bottoming out. Next week the new chips start shippi VI>ED>and I suspect supplies are winding down. I still can't believe the prices VI>ED>I'm seeing. Some of these systems are so cheap that if you bought the VI>ED>individual components you couldn't meet those prices. I think the cheapes VI>ED>I saw was a custom built 160Mhz, no monitor, no CD, no software, 16mb and VI>ED>3gig disk for $500. Sheesh! VI>Thanks for the heads up. But I think given the fact that I have been VI>spending my money like it grows on trees, I better pass for now! Good CHOICE :) (because that system isnt worth the price).... If your going to upgrade your computer (don't upgrade from old technology to more old technology) Date: Monday, April 13, 1998 5:32am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 745844 To: Amiga Re: q (Reply to #745834, Reply to #745825, Reply to #745812) (1 reply) AM>VI>ED>I think prices may be bottoming out. Next week the new chips start shi AM>VI>ED>and I suspect supplies are winding down. I still can't believe the pri AM>VI>ED>I'm seeing. Some of these systems are so cheap that if you bought the AM>VI>ED>individual components you couldn't meet those prices. I think the chea AM>VI>ED>I saw was a custom built 160Mhz, no monitor, no CD, no software, 16mb AM>VI>ED>3gig disk for $500. Sheesh! AM>VI>Thanks for the heads up. But I think given the fact that I have been AM>VI>spending my money like it grows on trees, I better pass for now! AM>Good CHOICE :) (because that system isnt worth the price).... AM>If your going to upgrade your computer (don't upgrade from old AM>technology to more old technology) Actually, now I think I will just upgrade my existing system. But for now, I am not doing anything. I really MUST rest my credit cards! Date: Tuesday, April 14, 1998 11:16am Forum: Computing From: Nightbird Msg#: 745861 To: Amiga Re: Computers (Reply to #745833, Reply to #745822, Reply to #745812) AM>NI>ED>I think prices may be bottoming out. Next week the new chips start shi AM>NI>ED>and I suspect supplies are winding down. I still can't believe the pri AM>NI>ED>I'm seeing. Some of these systems are so cheap that if you bought the AM>NI>ED>individual components you couldn't meet those prices. I think the chea AM>NI>ED>I saw was a custom built 160Mhz, no monitor, no CD, no software, 16mb AM>NI>ED>3gig disk for $500. Sheesh! AM>NI>That's because somebody else is building it, it would be around the same AM>NI>price to by the pieces yourself & build your own computer. AM>NI>--- AM>NI> þ OLX 2.1 TD þ if men concieved, abortion would be a sacrament AM>Even cheaper if ya build it yourself :) AM>Because you figure- ya gonna get everything (PART BY PART) :) and being AM>that PC parts arent worth much alone... plus with all the CHEAPER parts AM>ie: no-name motherboards/cpu's (non-intel stuff) is so CHEAP! :) Considering the computer I'm using right now only cost my $50!!! Hey a friend upgraded his computer and gave my hubby the pieces, my speakers cost me more tham the computer!! --- þ OLX 2.1 TD þ Am I REALLY responsible for someone who refuses to eat? Date: Wednesday, April 15, 1998 4:05pm Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 745883 To: Editor Re: Computers (Reply to #745812) (1 reply) ED>I think prices may be bottoming out. Next week the new chips start shipping ED>and I suspect supplies are winding down. I still can't believe the prices ED>I'm seeing. Some of these systems are so cheap that if you bought the ED>individual components you couldn't meet those prices. I think the cheapest ED>I saw was a custom built 160Mhz, no monitor, no CD, no software, 16mb and ED>3gig disk for $500. Sheesh! ED>--- ED> þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy This is being sent on my brand new $1300 notebook, 166 Intel Pentium MMX, 16 RAM 2G hard drive, etc. Date: Wednesday, April 15, 1998 9:30pm Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 745889 To: Steve Flur Re: Computers (Reply to #745883, Reply to #745812) (1 reply) SF>D>I think prices may be bottoming out. Next week the new chips start s SF>ED>and I suspect supplies are winding down. I still can't believe the SF>ED>I'm seeing. Some of these systems are so cheap that if you bought t SF>ED>individual components you couldn't meet those prices. I think the c SF>ED>I saw was a custom built 160Mhz, no monitor, no CD, no software, 16 SF>ED>3gig disk for $500. Sheesh! SF> SF>ED>--- SF>ED> þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy SF>This is being sent on my brand new $1300 notebook, 166 Intel Pentium SF>MMX, 16 RAM 2G hard drive, etc. Congratulations. Then there is no reason you shouldn't be able to quote properly, right? (G) --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Thursday, April 16, 1998 9:57am Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 745894 To: Editor Re: Computers (Reply to #745889, Reply to #745883, Reply to #745812) (1 reply) ED>SF>D>I think prices may be bottoming out. Next week the new chips start s ED>SF>ED>and I suspect supplies are winding down. I still can't believe the ED>SF>ED>I'm seeing. Some of these systems are so cheap that if you bought t ED>SF>ED>individual components you couldn't meet those prices. I think the c ED>SF>ED>I saw was a custom built 160Mhz, no monitor, no CD, no software, 16 ED>SF>ED>3gig disk for $500. Sheesh! ED>SF> ED>SF>ED>--- ED>SF>ED> þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy ED>SF>This is being sent on my brand new $1300 notebook, 166 Intel Pentium ED>SF>MMX, 16 RAM 2G hard drive, etc. ED>Congratulations. Then there is no reason you shouldn't be able to quote ED>properly, right? (G) ED>--- ED> þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy I will work on that. It only took me 2 days to find the right program to be able to call here. Date: Thursday, April 16, 1998 6:55pm Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 745902 To: Steve Flur Re: Computers (Reply to #745894, Reply to #745889, Reply to #745883, R*) (1 reply) SF>ED>SF>This is being sent on my brand new $1300 notebook, 166 Intel Pen SF>ED>SF>MMX, 16 RAM 2G hard drive, etc. SF> SF>ED>Congratulations. Then there is no reason you shouldn't be able to q SF>ED>properly, right? (G) SF> SF>I will work on that. It only took me 2 days to find the right program SF>be able to call here. What are you using? --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Thursday, April 16, 1998 9:40pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745904 To: Vida Re: q (Reply to #745844, Reply to #745834, Reply to #745825, R*) VI>AM>VI>ED>I think prices may be bottoming out. Next week the new chips start VI>AM>VI>ED>and I suspect supplies are winding down. I still can't believe the VI>AM>VI>ED>I'm seeing. Some of these systems are so cheap that if you bought t VI>AM>VI>ED>individual components you couldn't meet those prices. I think the c VI>AM>VI>ED>I saw was a custom built 160Mhz, no monitor, no CD, no software, 16 VI>AM>VI>ED>3gig disk for $500. Sheesh! VI>AM>VI>Thanks for the heads up. But I think given the fact that I have been VI>AM>VI>spending my money like it grows on trees, I better pass for now! VI>AM>Good CHOICE :) (because that system isnt worth the price).... VI>AM>If your going to upgrade your computer (don't upgrade from old VI>AM>technology to more old technology) VI>Actually, now I think I will just upgrade my existing system. But for VI>now, I am not doing anything. I really MUST rest my credit cards! I can understand that :) :( Date: Friday, April 17, 1998 11:18am Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 745914 To: Editor Re: Computers (Reply to #745902, Reply to #745894, Reply to #745889, R*) (1 reply) ED>SF>ED>SF>This is being sent on my brand new $1300 notebook, 166 Intel Pen ED>SF>ED>SF>MMX, 16 RAM 2G hard drive, etc. ED>SF> ED>SF>ED>Congratulations. Then there is no reason you shouldn't be able to q ED>SF>ED>properly, right? (G) ED>SF> ED>SF>I will work on that. It only took me 2 days to find the right program ED>SF>be able to call here. ED>What are you using? ED>--- ED> þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy So far, for here, Hyperterminal, but not the Widows program here. Date: Saturday, April 18, 1998 10:55am Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 745938 To: Steve Flur Re: Computers (Reply to #745914, Reply to #745902, Reply to #745894, R*) (2 replies) SF>D>SF>ED>SF>This is being sent on my brand new $1300 notebook, 166 Inte SF>ED>SF>ED>SF>MMX, 16 RAM 2G hard drive, etc. SF>ED>SF> SF>ED>SF>ED>Congratulations. Then there is no reason you shouldn't be abl SF>ED>SF>ED>properly, right? (G) SF>ED>SF> SF>ED>SF>I will work on that. It only took me 2 days to find the right pr SF>ED>SF>be able to call here. SF> SF>ED>What are you using? SF> SF>So far, for here, Hyperterminal, but not the Widows program here. I don't use Hyperterminal, but I think it has a VT100 mode, and if it does you can get Galacticomm into full screen mode. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Saturday, April 18, 1998 5:05pm Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 745944 To: Editor Re: Computers (Reply to #745938, Reply to #745914, Reply to #745902, R*) (1 reply) ED>SF>D>SF>ED>SF>This is being sent on my brand new $1300 notebook, 166 Inte ED>SF>ED>SF>ED>SF>MMX, 16 RAM 2G hard drive, etc. ED>SF>ED>SF> ED>SF>ED>SF>ED>Congratulations. Then there is no reason you shouldn't be abl ED>SF>ED>SF>ED>properly, right? (G) ED>SF>ED>SF> ED>SF>ED>SF>I will work on that. It only took me 2 days to find the right pr ED>SF>ED>SF>be able to call here. ED>SF> ED>SF>ED>What are you using? ED>SF> ED>SF>So far, for here, Hyperterminal, but not the Widows program here. ED>I don't use Hyperterminal, but I think it has a VT100 mode, and if it does ED>you can get Galacticomm into full screen mode. ED>--- ED> þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy I have downloaded that program but it has me loged on here as a diferent person. Date: Saturday, April 18, 1998 6:36pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 745945 To: Editor Re: Computers (Reply to #745938, Reply to #745914, Reply to #745902, R*) ED>SF>D>SF>ED>SF>This is being sent on my brand new $1300 notebook, 166 Inte ED>SF>ED>SF>ED>SF>MMX, 16 RAM 2G hard drive, etc. ED>SF>ED>SF> ED>SF>ED>SF>ED>Congratulations. Then there is no reason you shouldn't be abl ED>SF>ED>SF>ED>properly, right? (G) ED>SF>ED>SF> ED>SF>ED>SF>I will work on that. It only took me 2 days to find the right pr ED>SF>ED>SF>be able to call here. ED>SF> ED>SF>ED>What are you using? ED>SF> ED>SF>So far, for here, Hyperterminal, but not the Widows program here. ED>I don't use Hyperterminal, but I think it has a VT100 mode, and if it does ED>you can get Galacticomm into full screen mode. ED>--- ED> þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Another good TERMINAL is "Telemate".. I'm using version 4.20 (is A powerful terminal) :) Date: Saturday, April 18, 1998 7:41pm Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 745952 To: Steve Flur Re: Computers (Reply to #745944, Reply to #745938, Reply to #745914, R*) (1 reply) SF>ED>SF>So far, for here, Hyperterminal, but not the Widows program here SF> SF>ED>I don't use Hyperterminal, but I think it has a VT100 mode, and if SF>ED>you can get Galacticomm into full screen mode. SF> SF>I have downloaded that program but it has me loged on here as a difere SF>person. A different person? Could you elaborate a bit? --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Sunday, April 19, 1998 1:16pm Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 745962 To: Editor Re: Computers (Reply to #745952, Reply to #745944, Reply to #745938, R*) (1 reply) ED>SF>ED>SF>So far, for here, Hyperterminal, but not the Widows program here ED>SF> ED>SF>ED>I don't use Hyperterminal, but I think it has a VT100 mode, and if ED>SF>ED>you can get Galacticomm into full screen mode. ED>SF> ED>SF>I have downloaded that program but it has me loged on here as a difere ED>SF>person. ED>A different person? Could you elaborate a bit? ED>--- ED> þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy When in Galacticum Worldgroup I could not logon as me so I had to logon as a new person. Date: Sunday, April 19, 1998 4:58pm Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 745965 To: Steve Flur Re: Computers (Reply to #745962, Reply to #745952, Reply to #745944, R*) (1 reply) SF>D>SF>ED>SF>So far, for here, Hyperterminal, but not the Widows program SF>ED>SF> SF>ED>SF>ED>I don't use Hyperterminal, but I think it has a VT100 mode, a SF>ED>SF>ED>you can get Galacticomm into full screen mode. SF>ED>SF> SF>ED>SF>I have downloaded that program but it has me loged on here as a SF>ED>SF>person. SF> SF>ED>A different person? Could you elaborate a bit? SF> SF>When in Galacticum Worldgroup I could not logon as me so I had to logo SF>as a new person. Not sure why, but in any case, you could get full screen mode from Hyperterminal, I'm pretty sure. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Monday, April 20, 1998 1:03pm Forum: Computing From: Steve Flur Msg#: 745977 To: Editor Re: Computers (Reply to #745965, Reply to #745962, Reply to #745952, R*) ED>SF>D>SF>ED>SF>So far, for here, Hyperterminal, but not the Widows program ED>SF>ED>SF> ED>SF>ED>SF>ED>I don't use Hyperterminal, but I think it has a VT100 mode, a ED>SF>ED>SF>ED>you can get Galacticomm into full screen mode. ED>SF>ED>SF> ED>SF>ED>SF>I have downloaded that program but it has me loged on here as a ED>SF>ED>SF>person. ED>SF> ED>SF>ED>A different person? Could you elaborate a bit? ED>SF> ED>SF>When in Galacticum Worldgroup I could not logon as me so I had to logo ED>SF>as a new person. ED>Not sure why, but in any case, you could get full screen mode from ED>Hyperterminal, I'm pretty sure. ED>--- ED> þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy I will check that out, thanks. Date: Sunday, April 26, 1998 7:16am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 746045 To: ** ALL ** Re: Netscape help (2 replies) I have Netscape 3.1 installed on my harddrive. I am changing ISPs. As my version of Netscape is set up now when I "open" the Netscape icon it activates the dialer for my old ISP and dials the number for my old ISP account. I will be deleting the software for the old ISP shortly. Do I have to do anything to reset my version of Netscape so that when I "open" Netscape it activates the dailer for my NEW ISP and dials the number for my NEW ISP account? If so, what? Remember I have Win 3.1 on my system. The New ISP uses Internet Explorer as its default browser so if I "open" this icon it will activate the Internet Explorer software. Thanks a bunch. Date: Sunday, April 26, 1998 10:09pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 746049 To: Vida Re: Netscape help (Reply to #746045) (2 replies) VI>I have Netscape 3.1 installed on my harddrive. I am changing ISPs. VI> As my version of Netscape is set up now when I "open" the Netscape VI>icon it activates the dialer for my old ISP and dials the number for my VI>old ISP account. VI>I will be deleting the software for the old ISP shortly. VI>Do I have to do anything to reset my version of Netscape so that when I VI>"open" Netscape it activates the dailer for my NEW ISP and dials the VI>number for my NEW ISP account? If so, what? VI>Remember I have Win 3.1 on my system. The New ISP uses Internet VI>Explorer as its default browser so if I "open" this icon it will VI>activate the Internet Explorer software. VI>Thanks a bunch. Ok, well basicly- all you would have to do is change the "phone number" to your NEW ISP's number... As for WEB BROWSER (netscaper/explorer) you can use any Web Browser you want to :) (atleast you should be able to) :) so you shouldnt have any problems using your old Netscape.... btw: your WINDOWS 3.1, really has nothing to do with it :) aslong as you change your PPP dialer (information) ie: the number of the ISP, your login name/password, etc... (you shouldnt have any trouble) GOOD LUCK :) P/s: what internet server will you be using (and how much??) l8r Date: Monday, April 27, 1998 8:10am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 746060 To: Amiga Re: Netscape help (Reply to #746049, Reply to #746045) (2 replies) AM>Ok, well basicly- all you would have to do is change the "phone number" AM>to your NEW ISP's number... The next and obvious question--How do I do that? :) AM>As for WEB BROWSER (netscaper/explorer) you can use any Web Browser you AM>want to :) (atleast you should be able to) :) so you shouldnt have any AM>problems using your old Netscape.... I know that! :) I'm just logging in on on I/Explorer and then toggling over to Netscape. I'm just trying to avoid the extra step. AM>btw: your WINDOWS 3.1, really has nothing to do with it :) AM>aslong as you change your PPP dialer (information) ie: the number of the AM>ISP, your login name/password, etc... (you shouldnt have any trouble) The only reason I mention that I have Win 3.1 is that the instructions you give me might be slightly different than if I had Win 98 as my O/S. AM>GOOD LUCK :) Thanks. AM>P/s: what internet server will you be using (and how much??) MCI/Yahoo. The price is $14.95 per month if you are an MCI long distance customer. They will gladly SWITCH you to MCI long distance. Indeed, I think the main reason they are offering this good price on internet service is to get people to switch to MCI long distance. What I think is the sweetest irony is that I used to be an ATT customer, both for my ISP and my long distance carrier. ATT Internet announced that they are ending their flat rate pricing structure effective May 1 so I had the dump the internet account. And ended up dumping their long distance account also! :) I can not tell you how the service is like on MCI/Yahoo since I just opened the account yesterday and am still in the process of switching everything over. I can't use Erol's since my 56 K modem is the wrong kind. So this was the best "deal" in terms of price that I could find. AM>l8r Date: Monday, April 27, 1998 9:36am Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 746068 To: Vida Re: Netscape help (Reply to #746045) (1 reply) V >I have Netscape 3.1 installed on my harddrive. I am changing ISPs. V > V > As my version of Netscape is set up now when I "open" the Netscape V >icon it activates the dialer for my old ISP and dials the number for m V >old ISP account. V > V >I will be deleting the software for the old ISP shortly. V >Do I have to do anything to reset my version of Netscape so that when V >"open" Netscape it activates the dailer for my NEW ISP and dials the V >number for my NEW ISP account? If so, what? V > V >Remember I have Win 3.1 on my system. The New ISP uses Internet V >Explorer as its default browser so if I "open" this icon it will V >activate the Internet Explorer software. Vida.... if you are on 3.1, you aren't going to use Internet Explorer. I'm not sure about IE3, but I think IE4 is strictly W95/NT based. Besides, 90% of the time you won't see any difference. Chances are you were running Netscape 3.1 "Personal Edition" which had an integrated dialer. You could probably make it work with your new ISP. In any case, there should be a tech support number to call. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Monday, April 27, 1998 9:36am Forum: Computing From: Edktor Msg#: 746069 To: Amiga Re: Netscape help (Reply to #746049, Reply to #746045) (1 reply) A >VI>Remember I have Win 3.1 on my system. The New ISP uses Internet A >VI>Explorer as its default browser so if I "open" this icon it will A >VI>activate the Internet Explorer software. A > A >VI>Thanks a bunch. A > A >Ok, well basicly- all you would have to do is change the "phone number A >to your NEW ISP's number... Maybe yes, maybe no. Depends on the connection. Almost all dialup PPP software dynamically assignes IP addresses, but there are other parameters as well, such as primary/secondary name servers, gateway address, PAP/CHAP challenges, etc. Not to mention dial up script. It shouldn't be hard to change, but it would probably require more than just a phone number change. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Monday, April 27, 1998 9:36am Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 746070 To: Vida Re: Netscape help (Reply to #746060, Reply to #746049, Reply to #746045) (1 reply) V >I'm just logging in on on I/Explorer and then toggling over to V >Netscape. I'm just trying to avoid the extra step. Isn't there some kind of "setup wizard" with your Netscape? And since you have a version of IE working on Win 3.1, why not stick with it. Netscape is up to version 5.something by now. Some of the snazzier Java pages will blow it away. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Tuesday, April 28, 1998 6:25am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 746093 To: Editor Re: Netscape help (Reply to #746068, Reply to #746045) (2 replies) ED>V >Remember I have Win 3.1 on my system. The New ISP uses Internet ED>V >Explorer as its default browser so if I "open" this icon it will ED>V >activate the Internet Explorer software. ED>Vida.... if you are on 3.1, you aren't going to use Internet Explorer. I'm ED>not sure about IE3, but I think IE4 is strictly W95/NT based. ED>Besides, 90% of the time you won't see any difference. Except I have an EXTENSIVE bookmarks collection on my Netscape. :) Actually, the software I received from my new ISP has IE 3 preloaded on the CD ROM. And IE 3 is good for WIN 3.1. I know IE 3 is not the latest version and that it doesn't have all the bells and whistles of IE4. But frankly, I don't want the "push" channels of IE4. BTW, I can't run the latest version of Netscape either--but that's because I only have 8 MB of RAM and you need 16 MBs to run Netscape Communicator aka Netscape 4. ED>Chances are you were running ED>Netscape 3.1 "Personal Edition" which had an integrated dialer. You could ED>probably make it work with your new ISP. In any case, there should be a ED>tech support number to call. I have whatever version of Netscape 3.1 that you can download for free over the net! And because I downloaded it for free I can't get tech support from Netscape. Worse comes to worse, I will have to download a new version of Netscape off the net and delete my existing copy. I have my bookmarks file backed up on disk so I won't lose my precious bookmarks if I have to do it. Date: Tuesday, April 28, 1998 6:30am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 746094 To: Editor Re: Netscape help (Reply to #746070, Reply to #746060, Reply to #746049, R*) (1 reply) ED>V >I'm just logging in on on I/Explorer and then toggling over to ED>V >Netscape. I'm just trying to avoid the extra step. ED>Isn't there some kind of "setup wizard" with your Netscape? And since you ED>have a version of IE working on Win 3.1, why not stick with it. Netscape is ED>up to version 5.something by now. Some of the snazzier Java pages will blow ED>it away. I just LIKE Netscape better than IE! :) Either way I am using the older version of the browser--given my existing system I can't run the latest version of EITHER one! :) ED>--- ED> þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Tuesday, April 28, 1998 8:34am Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 746109 To: Vida Re: Netscape help (Reply to #746093, Reply to #746068, Reply to #746045) (1 reply) V >ED>Chances are you were running V >ED>Netscape 3.1 "Personal Edition" which had an integrated dialer. You V >ED>probably make it work with your new ISP. In any case, there should V >ED>tech support number to call. V > V >I have whatever version of Netscape 3.1 that you can download for free V >over the net! And because I downloaded it for free I can't get tech V >support from Netscape. V > V >Worse comes to worse, I will have to download a new version of Netscap V >off the net and delete my existing copy. I have my bookmarks file V >backed up on disk so I won't lose my precious bookmarks if I have to d V >it. If you download a new version of Netscape and install it before deleting the old it will import your bookmarks. I'm surprised that IE3 doesn't do that. IE4 located Netscape and saved all the bookmarks during the install. In either case, I don't think that would effect the "dialer" side. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Wednesday, April 29, 1998 6:15am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 746131 To: Editor Re: Netscape help (Reply to #746109, Reply to #746093, Reply to #746068, R*) ED>V >ED>Chances are you were running ED>V >ED>Netscape 3.1 "Personal Edition" which had an integrated dialer. You ED>V >ED>probably make it work with your new ISP. In any case, there should ED>V >ED>tech support number to call. ED>V > ED>V >I have whatever version of Netscape 3.1 that you can download for free ED>V >over the net! And because I downloaded it for free I can't get tech ED>V >support from Netscape. ED>V > ED>V >Worse comes to worse, I will have to download a new version of Netscap ED>V >off the net and delete my existing copy. I have my bookmarks file ED>V >backed up on disk so I won't lose my precious bookmarks if I have to d ED>V >it. ED>If you download a new version of Netscape and install it before deleting ED>the old it will import your bookmarks. I'm surprised that IE3 doesn't do ED>that. IE4 located Netscape and saved all the bookmarks during the install. ED>In either case, I don't think that would effect the "dialer" side. I may have it to give it a try any way. I have reset my mail options to access my new account and keep on getting an error message that the server is down!!!!! UGH! And I got a response from the ISP that they can't give me a tech support or help for Netscape--because it's not their software! WAH! :( Date: Wednesday, April 29, 1998 7:08pm Forum: Computing From: Kkid Msg#: 746148 To: Vida Re: Netscape help (Reply to #746093, Reply to #746068, Reply to #746045) (1 reply) VI>I have whatever version of Netscape 3.1 that you can download for free VI>over the net! And because I downloaded it for free I can't get tech VI>support from Netscape. You can always post a question on one of the newsgroups and get answers galore. I am using the same version of Netscape that you are. All you have to do when changing an isp, is to make sure that some basic info is changed such as you mailer and news information. VI>Worse comes to worse, I will have to download a new version of Netscape VI>off the net and delete my existing copy. I have my bookmarks file VI>backed up on disk so I won't lose my precious bookmarks if I have to do VI>it. Always save the bookmark and simply insert it once you have loaded any new Netscape and the new Netscape will keep your old bookmarks. Date: Friday, May 1, 1998 7:00am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 746161 To: Kkid Re: Netscape help (Reply to #746148, Reply to #746093, Reply to #746068, R*) (1 reply) KK>You can always post a question on one of the newsgroups and get answers KK>galore. I am using the same version of Netscape that you are. KK>All you have to do when changing an isp, is to make sure that some basic KK>info is changed such as you mailer and news information. That's what I thought! But I have been having a real hard time getting the mailer to work right! KK>VI>Worse comes to worse, I will have to download a new version of Netscape KK>VI>off the net and delete my existing copy. I have my bookmarks file KK>VI>backed up on disk so I won't lose my precious bookmarks if I have to do KK>VI>it. KK>Always save the bookmark and simply insert it once you have loaded any KK>new Netscape and the new Netscape will keep your old bookmarks. I already saved my book marks. I think I will try this over the weekend because I have been having such a hard time trying to reconfingure my existing version. Date: Friday, May 1, 1998 12:39pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 746179 To: Vida Re: Netscape help (Reply to #746060, Reply to #746049, Reply to #746045) (1 reply) VI>AM>Ok, well basicly- all you would have to do is change the "phone number" VI>AM>to your NEW ISP's number... VI>The next and obvious question--How do I do that? :) Some where on your internet/browser/dialer setup (you should see A phone number) you should be able ta click on A icon or box which will allow you ta change the old number to your new ISP's number... You might have to change your old LOGIN/PASSword also.... (I'm not sure how easy this will be) I know my old setup required me ta go into the PPP_log file (or something) and change all the PPP info... (it was A real pain in the BUTT) :( If nothing else works? (just) ask MCIs's tech-service for help :) they should be able ta answer all your questions :) Date: Friday, May 1, 1998 12:43pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 746180 To: Editor Re: Netscape help (Reply to #746069, Reply to #746049, Reply to #746045) ED>A >VI>Remember I have Win 3.1 on my system. The New ISP uses Internet ED>A >VI>Explorer as its default browser so if I "open" this icon it will ED>A >VI>activate the Internet Explorer software. ED>A > ED>A >VI>Thanks a bunch. ED>A > ED>A >Ok, well basicly- all you would have to do is change the "phone number ED>A >to your NEW ISP's number... ED>Maybe yes, maybe no. Depends on the connection. Almost all dialup PPP ED>software dynamically assignes IP addresses, but there are other parameters ED>as well, such as primary/secondary name servers, gateway address, PAP/CHAP ED>challenges, etc. Not to mention dial up script. It shouldn't be hard to ED>change, but it would probably require more than just a phone number change. Yeah, she might have ta change her PPP info, etc... Date: Friday, May 1, 1998 12:44pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 746181 To: Vida Re: Netscape help (Reply to #746094, Reply to #746070, Reply to #746060, R*) (1 reply) VI>ED>V >I'm just logging in on on I/Explorer and then toggling over to VI>ED>V >Netscape. I'm just trying to avoid the extra step. VI>ED>Isn't there some kind of "setup wizard" with your Netscape? And since you VI>ED>have a version of IE working on Win 3.1, why not stick with it. Netscape VI>ED>up to version 5.something by now. Some of the snazzier Java pages will bl VI>ED>it away. VI>I just LIKE Netscape better than IE! :) Anything is better than MS PRODUCTS :) :) :) :) Date: Saturday, May 2, 1998 8:04am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 746188 To: Amiga Re: Netscape help (Reply to #746179, Reply to #746060, Reply to #746049, R*) (1 reply) AM>VI>AM>Ok, well basicly- all you would have to do is change the "phone number AM>VI>AM>to your NEW ISP's number... AM>VI>The next and obvious question--How do I do that? :) AM>Some where on your internet/browser/dialer setup (you should see A phone AM>number) you should be able ta click on A icon or box which will allow AM>you ta change the old number to your new ISP's number... AM>You might have to change your old LOGIN/PASSword also.... (I'm not sure AM>how easy this will be) I know my old setup required me ta go into the AM>PPP_log file (or something) and change all the PPP info... (it was A AM>real pain in the BUTT) :( AM>If nothing else works? (just) ask MCIs's tech-service for help :) AM >they should be able ta answer all your questions :) I already did that. They said they can't give me any tech support for Netscape because that's not their software. :( I think I will go with plan B--download a new version of Netscape and delete the old. If I can find the time to do so! Date: Saturday, May 2, 1998 8:05am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 746189 To: Amiga Re: Netscape help (Reply to #746181, Reply to #746094, Reply to #746070, R*) (2 replies) AM>VI>ED>V >I'm just logging in on on I/Explorer and then toggling over to AM>VI>ED>V >Netscape. I'm just trying to avoid the extra step. AM>VI>ED>Isn't there some kind of "setup wizard" with your Netscape? And since AM>VI>ED>have a version of IE working on Win 3.1, why not stick with it. Netsca AM>VI>ED>up to version 5.something by now. Some of the snazzier Java pages will AM>VI>ED>it away. AM>VI>I just LIKE Netscape better than IE! :) AM>Anything is better than MS PRODUCTS :) :) :) :) And I like the idea that Bill Gates doesn't control EVERYTHING! :) Date: Sunday, May 3, 1998 10:58am Forum: Computing From: Kkid Msg#: 746206 To: Vida Re: Netscape help (Reply to #746161, Reply to #746148, Reply to #746093, R*) (2 replies) VI>That's what I thought! But I have been having a real hard time getting VI>the mailer to work right! I don't know who your ISP is but they are the ones who can tell you what to enter so that Netscape can pick up and send your mail. Date: Sunday, May 3, 1998 5:45pm Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 746210 To: Kkid Re: Netscape help (Reply to #746206, Reply to #746161, Reply to #746148, R*) (2 replies) KK>VI>That's what I thought! But I have been having a real hard time getting KK>VI>the mailer to work right! KK>I don't know who your ISP is but they are the ones who can tell you what KK>to enter so that Netscape can pick up and send your mail. I took care of it. Once I deleted my old version of Netscape, and downloaded and installed the new one it worked just fine. :) Date: Monday, May 4, 1998 3:55pm Forum: Computing From: Kkid Msg#: 746228 To: Vida Re: Netscape help (Reply to #746210, Reply to #746206, Reply to #746161, R*) (1 reply) VI>KK>I don't know who your ISP is but they are the ones who can tell you what VI>KK>to enter so that Netscape can pick up and send your mail. VI>I took care of it. Once I deleted my old version of Netscape, and VI>downloaded and installed the new one it worked just fine. :) Great! Date: Monday, May 4, 1998 6:01pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 746230 To: Vida Re: Netscape help (Reply to #746188, Reply to #746179, Reply to #746060, R*) (1 reply) VI>AM>If nothing else works? (just) ask MCIs's tech-service for help :) VI>AM >they should be able ta answer all your questions :) VI>I already did that. They said they can't give me any tech support for VI>Netscape because that's not their software. :( VI>I think I will go with plan B--download a new version of Netscape and VI>delete the old. If I can find the time to do so! That sucks! MCI should help you anyway (I mean) it's not like they don't know how to answer your "QUESTIONS"... PLAN B- sounds like A good idea... (whats the latest version of NET SCAPE)? Just incase you need A plan "C"? ya might wanna checkout 718-423-7404 It's the Keyboard Palace (they offer FULL/UNLIMITED INTERNET) for as little as $5.00 A month,$10.00 for two months,$25.00 for six months. They give you A FREE-TRIAL-ACCOUNT, so you can use the system for FREE (atleast) until your FREE-TRIAL-ACCOUNT runs out... then if you want more online time (just pay $5.00 A month) Pretty good ISP.. I use them myself.. Date: Monday, May 4, 1998 6:03pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 746231 To: Vida Re: Netscape help (Reply to #746189, Reply to #746181, Reply to #746094, R*) VI>AM>VI>ED>V >I'm just logging in on on I/Explorer and then toggling over to VI>AM>VI>ED>V >Netscape. I'm just trying to avoid the extra step. VI>AM>VI>ED>Isn't there some kind of "setup wizard" with your Netscape? And sin VI>AM>VI>ED>have a version of IE working on Win 3.1, why not stick with it. Net VI>AM>VI>ED>up to version 5.something by now. Some of the snazzier Java pages w VI>AM>VI>ED>it away. VI>AM>VI>I just LIKE Netscape better than IE! :) VI>AM>Anything is better than MS PRODUCTS :) :) :) :) VI>And I like the idea that Bill Gates doesn't control EVERYTHING! :) Hehehe.. YEah, I can see BILL GATES- has MCI in his pocket :( Date: Monday, May 4, 1998 6:05pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 746232 To: Kkid Re: Netscape help (Reply to #746206, Reply to #746161, Reply to #746148, R*) KK>VI>That's what I thought! But I have been having a real hard time getting KK>VI>the mailer to work right! KK>I don't know who your ISP is but they are the ones who can tell you what KK>to enter so that Netscape can pick up and send your mail. Yes, normal people would HELP "VIDA".. however it seems that MCI is under micro-soft's evil spell... which makes MCI "pro-MicroSoft" and "ANTI-everything else" :( Date: Monday, May 4, 1998 6:06pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 746233 To: Vida Re: Netscape help (Reply to #746210, Reply to #746206, Reply to #746161, R*) (1 reply) VI>KK>VI>That's what I thought! But I have been having a real hard time gettin VI>KK>VI>the mailer to work right! VI>KK>I don't know who your ISP is but they are the ones who can tell you what VI>KK>to enter so that Netscape can pick up and send your mail. VI>I took care of it. Once I deleted my old version of Netscape, and VI>downloaded and installed the new one it worked just fine. :) Glad ta hear it :) Date: Tuesday, May 5, 1998 6:40am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 746238 To: Kkid Re: Netscape help (Reply to #746228, Reply to #746210, Reply to #746206, R*) KK>VI>KK>I don't know who your ISP is but they are the ones who can tell you wh KK>VI>KK>to enter so that Netscape can pick up and send your mail. KK>VI>I took care of it. Once I deleted my old version of Netscape, and KK>VI>downloaded and installed the new one it worked just fine. :) KK>Great! Thanks for trying to help. :) Date: Tuesday, May 5, 1998 6:45am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 746239 To: Amiga Re: Netscape help (Reply to #746230, Reply to #746188, Reply to #746179, R*) (1 reply) AM>VI>I think I will go with plan B--download a new version of Netscape and AM>VI>delete the old. If I can find the time to do so! AM>That sucks! AM>MCI should help you anyway (I mean) it's not like they don't know how to AM>answer your "QUESTIONS"... That would be nice. But it's not the first time that tech support for an ISP has refused to help me with questions I had re; "foreign" software. AM>PLAN B- sounds like A good idea... (whats the latest version of NET AM>SCAPE)? Netscape Communicator. But you need at least 16 RAMs to run it correctly. I have only 8 RAMs on my computer. So when I tried to run Netscape Communicator it ran real, real, slooow. AM>Just incase you need A plan "C"? ya might wanna checkout. Sounds like a free ad to me, my friend. I don't appreciate reading ads here. Date: Tuesday, May 5, 1998 6:47am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 746240 To: Amiga Re: Netscape help (Reply to #746233, Reply to #746210, Reply to #746206, R*) AM>VI>KK>VI>That's what I thought! But I have been having a real hard time get AM>VI>KK>VI>the mailer to work right! AM>VI>KK>I don't know who your ISP is but they are the ones who can tell you wh AM>VI>KK>to enter so that Netscape can pick up and send your mail. AM>VI>I took care of it. Once I deleted my old version of Netscape, and AM>VI>downloaded and installed the new one it worked just fine. :) AM>Glad ta hear it :) Thanks. I kinda figured that this was what I needed to do. Date: Wednesday, May 6, 1998 9:15pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 746256 To: Vida Re: Netscape help (Reply to #746239, Reply to #746230, Reply to #746188, R*) (1 reply) VI>AM>VI>I think I will go with plan B--download a new version of Netscape and VI>AM>VI>delete the old. If I can find the time to do so! VI>AM>That sucks! VI>AM>MCI should help you anyway (I mean) it's not like they don't know how to VI>AM>answer your "QUESTIONS"... VI>That would be nice. But it's not the first time that tech support for VI>an ISP has refused to help me with questions I had re; "foreign" VI>software. VI>AM>PLAN B- sounds like A good idea... (whats the latest version of NET VI>AM>SCAPE)? VI>Netscape Communicator. But you need at least 16 RAMs to run it VI>correctly. I have only 8 RAMs on my computer. So when I tried to run VI>Netscape Communicator it ran real, real, slooow. VI>AM>Just incase you need A plan "C"? ya might wanna checkout. VI>Sounds like a free ad to me, my friend. I don't appreciate reading ads VI>here. Nah, well I guess it's A AD (btw: I'm not gettin paid for it).. just figure I'd pass it along.. Date: Thursday, May 7, 1998 6:59am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 746260 To: Amiga Re: Netscape help (Reply to #746256, Reply to #746239, Reply to #746230, R*) AM>VI>AM>VI>I think I will go with plan B--download a new version of Netscape a AM>VI>AM>VI>delete the old. If I can find the time to do so! AM>VI>AM>That sucks! AM>VI>AM>MCI should help you anyway (I mean) it's not like they don't know how AM>VI>AM>answer your "QUESTIONS"... AM>VI>That would be nice. But it's not the first time that tech support for AM>VI>an ISP has refused to help me with questions I had re; "foreign" AM>VI>software. AM>VI>AM>PLAN B- sounds like A good idea... (whats the latest version of NET AM>VI>AM>SCAPE)? AM>VI>Netscape Communicator. But you need at least 16 RAMs to run it AM>VI>correctly. I have only 8 RAMs on my computer. So when I tried to run AM>VI>Netscape Communicator it ran real, real, slooow. AM>VI>AM>Just incase you need A plan "C"? ya might wanna checkout. AM>VI>Sounds like a free ad to me, my friend. I don't appreciate reading ads AM>VI>here. AM>Nah, well I guess it's A AD (btw: I'm not gettin paid for it).. just AM>figure I'd pass it along.. No problem. I was just calling it as I was seeing it. Date: Monday, May 18, 1998 1:17pm Forum: Computing From: Conundrum Msg#: 746415 To: Vida Re: Netscape help (Reply to #746189, Reply to #746181, Reply to #746094, R*) (1 reply) VI>AM>Anything is better than MS PRODUCTS :) :) :) :) I wouldn't say Anything, though a fair bit is. VI>And I like the idea that Bill Gates doesn't control EVERYTHING! :) He certainly doesn't control my PC...Linux 2.0.33 (with 2.1.mumble at home). Date: Tuesday, May 19, 1998 5:42am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 746428 To: Conundrum Re: Netscape help (Reply to #746415, Reply to #746189, Reply to #746181, R*) (1 reply) CO>VI>AM>Anything is better than MS PRODUCTS :) :) :) :) CO>I wouldn't say Anything, though a fair bit is. CO>VI>And I like the idea that Bill Gates doesn't control EVERYTHING! :) CO>He certainly doesn't control my PC...Linux 2.0.33 (with 2.1.mumble at CO>home). What's your OS? Date: Wednesday, May 20, 1998 1:19am Forum: Computing From: Conundrum Msg#: 746449 To: Vida Re: Netscape help (Reply to #746428, Reply to #746415, Reply to #746189, R*) (1 reply) VI>CO>VI>AM>Anything is better than MS PRODUCTS :) :) :) :) VI>CO>I wouldn't say Anything, though a fair bit is. VI>CO>VI>And I like the idea that Bill Gates doesn't control EVERYTHING! :) VI>CO>He certainly doesn't control my PC...Linux 2.0.33 (with 2.1.mumble at VI>CO>home). VI>What's your OS? Like I said, Linux, the freeware Unix. It's far better and cleaner than Win$ for net stuff, and I don't like or use word processors, so I just use Emacs for all my text editing needs. If I really wanted one, of course, I could just buy a copy of Corel Wordperfect, or one of a number of other competing products. Runs, of course, on the standard Intel hardware, not to mention Alphas, Pilots (well, modified pilots), Macs, and the upcoming Corel Network Computer (which, according to press sheets, will be runing under LInux, with most applications written in Java). Date: Wednesday, May 20, 1998 6:12am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 746450 To: Conundrum Re: Netscape help (Reply to #746449, Reply to #746428, Reply to #746415, R*) (2 replies) CO>VI>CO>VI>AM>Anything is better than MS PRODUCTS :) :) :) :) CO>VI>CO>I wouldn't say Anything, though a fair bit is. CO>VI>CO>VI>And I like the idea that Bill Gates doesn't control EVERYTHING! :) CO>VI>CO>He certainly doesn't control my PC...Linux 2.0.33 (with 2.1.mumble at CO>VI>CO>home). CO>VI>What's your OS? CO>Like I said, Linux, the freeware Unix. I never heard of Linux. Unix sounds vaguely sounds familiar to me. But only vaguely. CO>It's far better and cleaner than Win$ for net stuff, and I don't like or CO>use word processors, so I just use Emacs for all my text editing needs. CO> If I really wanted one, of course, I could just buy a copy of CO>Corel Wordperfect, or one of a number of other competing products. CO> Runs, of course, on the standard Intel hardware, not to mention CO>Alphas, Pilots (well, modified pilots), Macs, and the upcoming Corel CO>Network Computer (which, according to press sheets, will be runing under CO>LInux, with most applications written in Java). But can you surf web pages using Unix? The only thing I use my computer for are to surf the web and to run my word processing program. Date: Wednesday, May 27, 1998 12:49am Forum: Computing From: Conundrum Msg#: 746518 To: Vida Re: Netscape help (Reply to #746450, Reply to #746449, Reply to #746428, R*) (1 reply) VI>CO>VI>CO>VI>AM>Anything is better than MS PRODUCTS :) :) :) :) VI>CO>VI>CO>I wouldn't say Anything, though a fair bit is. VI>CO>VI>CO>VI>And I like the idea that Bill Gates doesn't control EVERYTHING! VI>CO>VI>CO>He certainly doesn't control my PC...Linux 2.0.33 (with 2.1.mumble VI>CO>VI>CO>home). VI>CO>VI>What's your OS? VI>CO>Like I said, Linux, the freeware Unix. VI>I never heard of Linux. Unix sounds vaguely sounds familiar to me. VI>But only vaguely. Unix is the OS that, among other things, most of the servers on the Net wun on. Yes, most of those web sites you connect to aren't running NT, and they sure as hell aren't running '95; they're running various and sundry flavors of Unix, including Linux. Linux is free, relatively easy to install, supports most Dos hardware, will run without reformatting your hard drive (though you're better off if you give it its own partition, since Dos partitions are SLOW), and is commercially supported by several companies. http://www.linux.org/ Also, much of the software for Linux is Free, and often as good or better than the Windows equivalent. There are some exceptions, but then, there always are. On the dark side, it's unix, so you do have to delve farther into what's actually going on on your computer to change things. On the light side, unlike the mold from Redmond, you can, without much difficulty.; better and cleaner than Win$ for net stuff, and I don't like or VI>CO>use word processors, so I just use Emacs for all my text editing needs. VI>CO> If I really wanted one, of course, I could just buy a copy of VI>CO>Corel Wordperfect, or one of a number of other competing products. VI>CO> Runs, of course, on the standard Intel hardware, not to mention VI>CO>Alphas, Pilots (well, modified pilots), Macs, and the upcoming Corel VI>CO>Network Computer (which, according to press sheets, will be runing under VI>CO>LInux, with most applications written in Java). VI>But can you surf web pages using Unix? The only thing I use my VI>computer for are to surf the web and to run my word processing program. Of course you can -- you can run Mosaic (but why), the W3C (the commit tie commitee that standardizes HTML, the langugage of the web)'s test browser, Lynx (the text-only, but still feature-rich browser), HotJava (the browser that brought Java out of the shadows), and, of course, the ubiqutous Netscape (the latest version I'm running at work is 4.05 with the java fix, though I've got the uncompiled source of 5.0 sitting on my desktop waiting to be played with). And the networking is a Lot better than Windows, of course; say "free easy dialer scripts" three times fast. Date: Saturday, May 30, 1998 9:02am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 746546 To: Conundrum Re: Netscape help (Reply to #746518, Reply to #746450, Reply to #746449, R*) (1 reply) CO>VI>CO>VI>CO>VI>AM>Anything is better than MS PRODUCTS :) :) :) :) CO>VI>CO>VI>CO>I wouldn't say Anything, though a fair bit is. CO>VI>CO>VI>CO>VI>And I like the idea that Bill Gates doesn't control EVERYTHIN CO>VI>CO>VI>CO>He certainly doesn't control my PC...Linux 2.0.33 (with 2.1.mumb CO>VI>CO>VI>CO>home). CO>VI>CO>VI>What's your OS? CO>VI>CO>Like I said, Linux, the freeware Unix. CO>VI>I never heard of Linux. Unix sounds vaguely sounds familiar to me. CO>VI>But only vaguely. CO>Unix is the OS that, among other things, most of the servers on the Net CO>wun on. Yes, most of those web sites you connect to aren't running NT, CO>and they sure as hell aren't running '95; they're running various and CO>sundry flavors of Unix, including Linux. Linux is free, relatively easy CO>to install, supports most Dos hardware, will run without reformatting CO>your hard drive (though you're better off if you give it its own CO>partition, since Dos partitions are SLOW), and is commercially supported CO>by several companies. http://www.linux.org/ CO> Also, much of the software for Linux is Free, and often as good CO>or better than the Windows equivalent. There are some exceptions, but CO>then, there always are. CO> On the dark side, it's unix, so you do have to delve farther into CO>what's actually going on on your computer to change things. On the CO>light side, unlike the mold from Redmond, you can, without much CO>difficulty.; better and cleaner than Win$ for net stuff, and I don't like CO>VI>CO>use word processors, so I just use Emacs for all my text editing needs CO>VI>CO> If I really wanted one, of course, I could just buy a copy of CO>VI>CO>Corel Wordperfect, or one of a number of other competing products. CO>VI>CO> Runs, of course, on the standard Intel hardware, not to mention CO>VI>CO>Alphas, Pilots (well, modified pilots), Macs, and the upcoming Corel CO>VI>CO>Network Computer (which, according to press sheets, will be runing und CO>VI>CO>LInux, with most applications written in Java). CO>VI>But can you surf web pages using Unix? The only thing I use my CO>VI>computer for are to surf the web and to run my word processing program. CO>Of course you can -- you can run Mosaic (but why), the W3C (the commit tie CO>commitee that standardizes HTML, the langugage of the web)'s test CO>browser, Lynx (the text-only, but still feature-rich browser), HotJava CO>(the browser that brought Java out of the shadows), and, of course, the CO>ubiqutous Netscape (the latest version I'm running at work is 4.05 with CO>the java fix, though I've got the uncompiled source of 5.0 sitting on my CO>desktop waiting to be played with). CO> And the networking is a Lot better than Windows, of course; say CO>"free easy dialer scripts" three times fast. Thanks for the education! But I am sure I would get totally lost if I even tried to run this stuff. I'm your typical user who is spoiled by the ease of the windoze environment. I even run WorldGroup Manager to read the messages on the board, rather than the DOS standard software! Date: Wednesday, June 3, 1998 10:21pm Forum: Computing From: Conundrum Msg#: 746615 To: Vida Re: Netscape help (Reply to #746546, Reply to #746518, Reply to #746450, R*) (2 replies) VI>CO>the java fix, though I've got the uncompiled source of 5.0 sitting on my VI>CO>desktop waiting to be played with). VI>CO> And the networking is a Lot better than Windows, of course; say VI>CO>"free easy dialer scripts" three times fast. VI>Thanks for the education! But I am sure I would get totally lost if I VI>even tried to run this stuff. I'm your typical user who is spoiled by VI>the ease of the windoze environment. I even run WorldGroup Manager to VI>read the messages on the board, rather than the DOS standard software! Why? It's slower, uglier, and from the evidince of your posts, encourages you to overquote in the extreme. But yes, not everyone wants to run a unix system on their desktop -- the learning curve is much sharper, and you'll spend a fair ammount of time on the shell. On the other hand, from a daily usage standpoint, it's far superior to Windows -- the system itself tends to be faster, more reliable, and quite a bit cleaner. Date: Friday, June 5, 1998 8:44am Forum: Computing From: Vida Msg#: 746635 To: Conundrum Re: Netscape help (Reply to #746615, Reply to #746546, Reply to #746518, R*) (1 reply) CO>VI>CO>the java fix, though I've got the uncompiled source of 5.0 sitting CO>on my CO>VI>CO>desktop waiting to be played with). CO>VI>CO> And the networking is a Lot better than Windows, of course; say CO>VI>CO>"free easy dialer scripts" three times fast. CO>VI>Thanks for the education! But I am sure I would get totally lost if I CO>VI>even tried to run this stuff. I'm your typical user who is spoiled by CO>VI>the ease of the windoze environment. I even run WorldGroup Manager to CO>VI>read the messages on the board, rather than the DOS standard software! CO>Why? It's slower, uglier, and from the evidince of your posts, CO>encourages you to overquote in the extreme. Thanks a bunch, friend! :) CO> But yes, not everyone wants to run a unix system on their desktop CO>-- the learning curve is much sharper, and you'll spend a fair ammount CO>of time on the shell. CO> On the other hand, from a daily usage standpoint, it's far CO>superior to Windows -- the system itself tends to be faster, more CO>reliable, and quite a bit cleaner. I'm sure all you are saying is true. It's a question of not being motivated enough to make the switch. I have a lot of other priorities in my life. This is not on the top of my list. Date: Sunday, June 7, 1998 9:11pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 746658 To: Vida Re: Netscape help (Reply to #746450, Reply to #746449, Reply to #746428, R*) VI>CO> Runs, of course, on the standard Intel hardware, not to mention VI>CO>Alphas, Pilots (well, modified pilots), Macs, and the upcoming Corel VI>CO>Network Computer (which, according to press sheets, will be runing under VI>CO>LInux, with most applications written in Java). VI>But can you surf web pages using Unix? The only thing I use my VI>computer for are to surf the web and to run my word processing program. I know someone must of gave you the answer to this question already :) but it's such A great question :) I just can't help myself :) Sure, you can do everything from UNIX... Just about everything on the WEB.. is running from A UNIX SERVER.. and if I'm correct.. UNIX was also the first systems used for INTERNET stuff :) UNIX is A great platform.... but it's not for everyone :( Unix is great for people who arent scared of using command lines/SHELLS I'm not pro MICRO-SOFT... but windows is sometimes the only answer for some people (I use Win3.11 myself.. only because I need ta run two TELNETs at the same time) I still prefer the AMIGA OS... it's the best :) (just un-supported) but that should change.. atleast I hope :) Date: Sunday, June 7, 1998 9:17pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 746659 To: Conundrum Re: Netscape help (Reply to #746615, Reply to #746546, Reply to #746518, R*) (2 replies) CO> But yes, not everyone wants to run a unix system on their desktop CO>-- the learning curve is much sharper, and you'll spend a fair ammount CO>of time on the shell. CO> On the other hand, from a daily usage standpoint, it's far CO>superior to Windows -- the system itself tends to be faster, more CO>reliable, and quite a bit cleaner. Hehehe, A little nice :) you should just said the truth :) Alot of computers users arent "COMPUTER USERS" :) UNIX is far....far.... SUPERIOR to WINDOZE... I hate windows.. because it's not A true MULTI-TASKER.... and it's slow, too big.. waste of HD.. and memory hungry... With all that said.... I still use WIN3.11 (but I might just install some kinda UNIX) then agian.. at heart I'm still an AMIGA user.. so I doubt I'm gonna try an supe my PC's up when I still have the "AMIGA" :) Date: Sunday, June 7, 1998 9:19pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 746660 To: Vida Re: Netscape help (Reply to #746635, Reply to #746615, Reply to #746546, R*) VI>I'm sure all you are saying is true. It's a question of not being VI>motivated enough to make the switch. I have a lot of other priorities VI>in my life. This is not on the top of my list. Plus... it can be like A fish out of water :( Date: Monday, June 8, 1998 8:31am Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 746671 To: Amiga Re: Netscape help (Reply to #746659, Reply to #746615, Reply to #746546, R*) (1 reply) A >I hate windows.. because it's not A true MULTI-TASKER.... and it's slo A >too big.. waste of HD.. and memory hungry... Wrong. One of the big changes in W95/NT was preemptive multitasking. In fact, NT4 can support multiple CPUs and even multiprogram. But its true that it eats tons of memory, 12-16mb being the minimum for W95 and 24-32 for NT, but an awful lot of that is the applications, which tend to be intensively graphic nowadays. UNIX isn't exactly memory stingy either. I've put together systems running on several flavors of Unix, including Solaris, SCO and AIX, and they have swap and memory management algorithms that can't be beat, but running a decent sized application on much less than 16mb of memory is asking for performance problems. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Tuesday, June 16, 1998 1:41am Forum: Computing From: Conundrum Msg#: 746808 To: Amiga Re: Netscape help (Reply to #746659, Reply to #746615, Reply to #746546, R*) AM>With all that said.... I still use WIN3.11 (but I might just install Why? As for running two telnets; I prefer Real telnets (ie unix telnet programs running in fully vt100 compatible xterms). AM>some kinda UNIX) then agian.. at heart I'm still an AMIGA user.. so I AM>doubt I'm gonna try an supe my PC's up when I still have the "AMIGA" :) Don't worry; you can install a real unix on the Amiga too :) Date: Wednesday, June 24, 1998 2:09pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 746932 To: Editor Re: Netscape help (Reply to #746671, Reply to #746659, Reply to #746615, R*) (1 reply) ED> Wrong. One of the big changes in W95/NT was preemptive ED> multitasking. In fact, NT4 can support multiple CPUs and even ED> multiprogram. But its true that it eats tons of memory, 12-16mb ED> being the minimum for W95 and 24-32 But c'mon.. you can't compare what WIN'95 does-- to any of the true multitasking OS's... I mean.. I've seen A P233 with 64megs running WIN'95... and just running the "Audio Station X" and "Netscape" at the same time.. (plus all the normal programs running in the background) the system was slow... ED> for NT, but an awful lot of that is the applications, which tend ED> to be intensively graphic nowadays. 1 Yup... I guess if they can't make it good-- atleast make it look good (damm, I sound like Bill Gates) :) ED> UNIX isn't exactly memory stingy either. I've put together ED> systems running on several flavors of Unix, including Solaris, ED> SCO and AIX, and they have swap and memory management algorithms ED> that can't be beat, but running a decent sized application on an 16mb of memory is asking for performance Thats kinda why I still stand behind the AMIGA OS, it's still one of the best in the world... not mention it can multi-task with as little as 256k.. so systems with 64megs & PPC processors can breeze thru without any problems.. The only real problem on the AMIGA platform is support, ie: hard ta find anything new :( * not really A problem for me- since 3rd party companies still support high level Video,Graphics & Audio applications Just A little FYI: Gateway (as in Gateway 2000) & Amiga International are said to be working on making new AMIGA's (I'm not really waitin for them to market these machines... if they ever see life)... but from what I've read- they are supposed ta be based on the AMIGA OS & the x86 Date: Wednesday, June 24, 1998 3:04pm Forum: Computing From: Editor Msg#: 746934 To: Amiga Re: Netscape help (Reply to #746932, Reply to #746671, Reply to #746659, R*) (1 reply) A >But c'mon.. you can't compare what WIN'95 does-- to any of the true A >multitasking OS's... I mean.. I've seen A P233 with 64megs running A >WIN'95... and just running the "Audio Station X" and "Netscape" at the A >same time.. (plus all the normal programs running in the background) t A >system was slow... No, but you can compare NT4 with any of them. I spend my days alternating between AIX and NT4, and they are both pretty good at what they do. A >Yup... I guess if they can't make it good-- atleast make it look good A >(damm, I sound like Bill Gates) :) You gives da public what it wants. A >Thats kinda why I still stand behind the AMIGA OS, it's still one of t A >best in the world... not mention it can multi-task with as little as A >256k.. so systems with 64megs & PPC processors can breeze thru withou A >any problems.. The IBM Series/1 would multitask in 48k. The problem is that when you start dealing with graphics intensive application the memory requirements go through the roof. A >The only real problem on the AMIGA platform is support, ie: hard ta fi A >anything new :( * not really A problem for me- since 3rd party A >companies still support high level Video,Graphics & Audio applications The ONLY thing wrong? That's what killed OS/2. --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#0 þ Unregistered Evaluation Copy Date: Thursday, July 30, 1998 7:34pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 747306 To: Editor Re: Netscape help (Reply to #746934, Reply to #746932, Reply to #746671, R*) ED>A >Thats kinda why I still stand behind the AMIGA OS, it's still one of t ED>A >best in the world... not mention it can multi-task with as little as ED>A >256k.. so systems with 64megs & PPC processors can breeze thru withou ED>A >any problems.. ED>The IBM Series/1 would multitask in 48k. The problem is that when you start ED>dealing with graphics intensive application the memory requirements go ED>through the roof. ED>A >The only real problem on the AMIGA platform is support, ie: hard ta fi ED>A >anything new :( * not really A problem for me- since 3rd party ED>A >companies still support high level Video,Graphics & Audio applications ED>The ONLY thing wrong? That's what killed OS/2. The cool thing about the AMIGA/OS.. was not only could it multi-task with as little as 256k, but you could also do video,sound,high-level graphics etc... The AMIGA/OS.. uses mhz & ram very well.... it makes good on less.... As for the problem.... well- it's pretty cut & dry: The AMIGA didnt have A owner since 1994 (I think).. then some time last year, GATEWAY 2000 (now known as GATEWAY) became the new owners of the AMIGA.. From that point.. GATEWAY has set A sub-division called AMIGA Intl. They were working with people like PHASE-5... who has introduced the PPC to the AMIGA (so the AMIGAs now have faster processors, ie: 166mhz - 200mhz) They were (or still are) working the the BOXERS... the BOXERS are suposed to be (or atleast were) going to be the next level of AMIGAs they two versions... one version has three or four processors running at 200mhz, and the other version has multi-processors running at 300mhz. I'm not sure if they will ever release the "PPC" based BOXERS? because it seems that "Gateway/Amiga Intl" are looking to use x86 processors.... kind of like new (intel?) x86 machines running the AMIGA OS.. As for NT... I guess thats going to be the OS of choice (atleast for the PC) since, Windoze 98 is most likely the last of the 16it legacy Hmmm, what was that joke? A 32bit patch for A 16bit hack of A 8bit OS, from A company that won't allow 1bit of competition... Date: Saturday, August 1, 1998 11:47am Forum: Computing From: Sicknwired Msg#: 747312 To: ** ALL ** Re: windows 98 (1 reply) Is anybody having problems installing Win98? I get this message that basically says my 586 is not a 586. Its a nexGen586, its not a Pentium (please forgive me). Any how anyone got any insight? thanks Sicknwired Date: Saturday, August 1, 1998 11:48am Forum: Computing From: Sicknwired Msg#: 747313 To: ** ALL ** Re: anyone know of any good gaming BBSs in the NYC area? thanks Sicknwired Date: Tuesday, August 4, 1998 9:29pm Forum: Computing From: Amiga Msg#: 747325 To: Sicknwired Re: windows 98 (Reply to #747312) SI>Is anybody having problems installing Win98? SI>I get this message that basically says my 586 is not a 586. Its a SI>nexGen586, its not a Pentium (please forgive me). SI>Any how anyone got any insight? SI>thanks SI>Sicknwired Tryin to install win'98, was mistake number one ok, enuff of the pickin on Micro-Soft :) Hmm, don't know.. it should work... I mean- you can install win98 on A 486, so it should install on just about any 32bit machine.. I'm sure the problem is some where in the config (win98 config) and not A internal hardware problem. (your machine is fine) win98 is screwed.. Read the online help files (that I'm sure MS threw into WIN'98) Thats about all I can tell ya.. Date: Wednesday, September 30, 1998 7:25pm Forum: Computing From: Renegade Msg#: 747782 To: ** ALL ** Re: Computer Jokes NEW COMPUTER VIRUSES > > > > Ellen Degeneres virus.........Your IBM suddenly claims it's a MAC > > Monica Lewinsky virus.........Sucks all the memory out of your computer > > Titanic virus.................Makes your whole computer go down > > Disney virus..................Everything in the computer goes Goofy > > Mike Tyson virus..............Quits after one byte > > Prozac virus...................Screws up your RAM but your processor > > doesn't care > > Sharon Stone virus............Makes a huge initial impact, then you > > forget it's there. > > Lorena Bobbit virus...........Turns your hard disk into a 3.5 inch > > floppy > > Tim Allen virus...............Appears helpful, only to destroy your hard > > drive upon contact > > Woody Allen virus..............Bypasses the motherboard and turns on a > > daughter card > > Saddam Hussein virus...........Won't let you into any of your programs > > Tonya Harding virus............Turns your BAT files into lethal weapons > > George Michaels virus..........Runs its course, occasionally releasing > > excess data buildup > > Joey Buttafuoco virus..........Only attacks minor files > > X-files virus..................All your Icons start shape shifting > > Spice Girl virus...............Has no real function, but makes a pretty > > desktop > > Ronald Reagan virus............Saves your data, but forgets where it is > > stored > > Dr. Jack Kevorkian virus.......Searches your hard drive for old files > > and deletes them > > Sony Bono virus................Just when you get surfing the Web, a > > firewall appears out of no where > > Martha Stewart virus...........Takes all your files, sorts them by > > category and folds them into cute little doilies to be displayed on your > > desktop > > Oprah Winfrey virus.............Your 200MB hard drive suddenly shrinks > > to 80MB, and then slowly expands to 300MB > > Arnold Schwarzenegger virus..Terminates and stays resident. But it'll be > > back Date: Wednesday, September 30, 1998 7:25pm Forum: Computing From: Renegade Msg#: 747784 To: ** ALL ** Re: More Computer Jokes > > 7 WAYS TO TELL A REDNECK HAS BEEN WORKING ON A COMPUTER (My apologies to all you Rednecks!HA) > > 7. The monitor is up on blocks. > > 6. The six front keys have rotted out. > > 5. The extra RAM slots have Dodge truck parts stored in them. > > 4. The numeric keypad only goes up to six. > > 3. The password is "Bubba." > > 2. There's a gun rack mounted on the CPU. > > 1. The keyboard is camouflaged. > > Date: Sunday, October 25, 1998 4:33pm Forum: Computing From: MashMan Msg#: 747914 To: ** ALL ** Re: Help With RIP Term v2.2 (1 reply) I just got Rip Term a couple of days ago and the extractor didn't put the specific files in the specific foldersies and so far i only got the fonts directory and a little bit of the icons directory. So what i ask is that if anyone who has has RIP Term v2.2 can they tell me what folders are there in the Rip term directory and what should be inside them. Date: Sunday, October 25, 1998 4:36pm Forum: Computing From: MashMan Msg#: 747915 To: ** ALL ** Re: Help With RIP TERM v2.2(Part 2) If you can't help with the other request then help me with this : Everytime I run RIP Term it says "Cannot initialize outline Font Engine" without the quotes of course Date: Sunday, October 25, 1998 4:46pm Forum: Computing From: Sysop Msg#: 747918 To: MashMan Re: Help With RIP Term v2.2 (Reply to #747914) I think that you can extract the files using the -d option, and that will put the files into the proper directories. Date: Sunday, May 30, 1999 4:30pm Forum: Computing From: Mull-z Msg#: 748684 To: ** ALL ** Re: computer hardware and software To anyone who know how input windows 95 with a cd without erasing the cd program-if you know how to do this give me a buzz-my name on this system is mull-z. /s End of list! Select a Sysop option (R,W,F,T,S,M,E,A,O,X to exit or ? for menu):