Thoughts of the Day: ***Be aware of the mystical forces here*** Message Lifetime: 120 days Each Forum consists of a message database with attached files. There are eight basic levels of user access: Zero, Read, Download, Write, Upload, Co-Op, Forum-Op, and Sysop. "Read" access means that you can read messages only; "Download" access means you can also download files; "Write" access allows you to write (or post) messages; "Upload" access means that you can also upload attachments, but that the Forum-Op must approve them for download; "Co-Op" uploads are "pre-approved". You have "Sysop" access to this Forum. Your Forum-Op is "Merlin". Please note: your account is charged 60 credits for each minute you spend in this Forum. In addition, you are given 300 credits each time you write a message, given 300 credits for each file uploaded, and not charged for each file downloaded. If a file you upload is approved for download, the Forum-Op might arrange for you to receive a bonus. All messages posted to this Forum are preserved indefinitely, until erased by the Forum-Op. Welcome, Sysop, to Magick: Enter if you dare... R ... Read messages W ... Write a message F ... Find messages T ... Teleconference S ... Select a new Forum ? ... Description of this Forum M ... Modify a message E ... Erase a message A ... Approve files (0 waiting) O ... Operations menu Select a letter from this list, or X to exit: flfff Date: Friday, January 29, 1993 10:36pm Forum: Magick From: Merlin Msg#: 298443 To: Lythande *EXEMPT* Re: Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live (Reply to #297611, Reply to #296363, Reply to #296124, R*) (3 replies) The mistranslation bit doesn't seem to be quite on the mar. Here's something I wrote a while ago on the subject of that passage: One of the most controversial passages in the Jewish Scriptures is found in the book of Exodus, chapter 22, verse 17. The verse most often rendered, in translation, as "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." Over the years this mis-translation has caused no end of problems between Wiccans on one hand and Jews and Christians on the other. Most alternate translations which I have seen are not much better, although some remove the offending word "witch" and replace it with "sorceress." The version of the bible published by The Jewish Publication Society renders the verse as follows: "Thou shalt not suffer a sorceress to live." Neither of these translations is acceptable; and while they have certainly become part and parcel of our culture, the verse is not, in my opinion, properly understood. According to the well-respected THE TORAH: A MODERN COMMENTARY, published by The Union of American Hebrew Congregations (c) 1981, the verse is more properly translated as "Thou shalt not telerate a sorceesss," with no mention about putting the offending sorceresss to death. The commentary, written by W. Gunther Plaut says, "The female example ('sorceress') was used probbaly because the practitioner was most likely a woman. No particiular type of sorcery is noted; the regulation appears to aim at local practices. Other Near Eastern laws also opposed sorcery." Certain types of magic are quite acceptable in Judaism (such as the magic necessary to create Golems) but it does not appear that any of the practitioners thereof were women. To complete an understanding of this verse, it is important to look at the Hebrew word used, m'ka-shay-fah. Almost all Hebrew words can be reduced to a 3-letter form. In this case, the three letters are K-SH-F (the SH sound in Hebrew being represented by a single letter, the 'shin.') The roots of this word, in both Arabic and Syrian have the meaning of "cutting up," or "cutting oneself." However, the Syraic root also has the meaning of "to pray." This would indicate to me that there is a connection between sorcery, in the mind of the rabbis, and prayer. If so, the proscription against sorcery might also be a proscrption against praying in other, non-Jewish, ways. The basic noun form of the word is "sorcery," and the basic verb form is "to practice sorcery." Nowhere in proper translations should this word be translated as "witches" or "witchcraft." The knee-jerk reaction to these words is probably what translators of the Bible were looking for when this translation was first used. I do not know when it was first used, but it wouldn't surprise me if the King James Version (KJV) were the first to do so. I have also heard Wiccans mention that the verse has been grossly mistranslated and that the original translation was "poisoner." I can find nothing in the text which substantiates this claim. I will be happy to share my references with any interested parties; and I would welcome references to other instances of this type of proscription so that I can look further into them, time permitting. Date: Thursday, February 11, 1993 1:23am Forum: Magick From: Vibrantm Msg#: 307667 To: Scarlett *EXEMPT* Re: PAGAN.FAQ File: PAGAN.FAQ (Reply to #307344, Reply to #299528, Reply to #297663, R*) (1 reply) I am uploading an information file on paganism right this minute! Attached to this response. Date: Thursday, April 29, 1993 3:28pm Forum: Magick From: Nightblades Msg#: 349910 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: Saffron and it's uses (Copy by Lythande) (1 reply) I am right now going to parrot a book at you. It's name is Scott Cuninghams book of magical herbs. And this is the entry on Saffron Saffron (Crocus sativa) Folk names: Autumn Crocus, Crocus, Karcom, Krokos, Kunkuma (Sandkrit), Saffer(Arabic) Gender: Masculine, Planet: Sun, Element: Fire, Deities: Eos, Ashtoreth Powers: Love, Healing, Happiness, Wind raising, Lust, Strenght(the emotional kind), Psychic Powers. Ritual Uses: The Phoenecians baked saffron into crescent-shaped cakes, which the ate in honor of the Moon and fertility Goddess, Ashtoreth. Magical uses: Saffron is added to Love sachets as well as those aimed at raising lustful feelings. It is used in healing spells, and the infusion is used as a wash water for the hands prior to healing rituals. At one time in Persia (Iran) pregnant women wore a ball of saffron at the pit ofthe stomach to ensure a speedy delivery. The Infusion, drunk enables you to forsee the future, and simply ingesting saffron dispels melancholy. In fact, one early author warns against eating too muvh saffron lest one should `die of excessive joy'! Saffron in the home keeps lizards from venturing in and wearing a chaplet of saffron will protect you from inebriaton (and will probaly be the subject of a few comments from your friends). Sheets were rinsed with saffron in Ireland so that the arms and legs would be strengthed during sleep, and the ancient Persians utilized saffron to raise the wind. Date: Thursday, July 22, 1993 1:15am Forum: Magick From: Scarlett Msg#: 380689 To: Morgaine *EXEMPT* Re: New book spotted (Reply to #378604) (3 replies) If you're interested in books from Llewellyn, almost all of which are of interest to pagans, wiccans and the New Age community, then you might want to get on their mailing list. They publish a magalog called "New Worlds of Mind & Spirit," a bimonthly periodical that includes excerpts from their upcoming publications, as well as correspondence from readers and calendars of events across the country. If a reader orders something through the mail, the magalog comes free of charge. If not, you can subscribe by sending $10.00 with your name, address and request for subscription to Llewllyn Publications, P.O. Box 64383, St. Paul, MN 55164-0383. Their list includes people like Scott Cunningham, Raymond Buckland, Joan McEvers (Astrology), Gerald & Betty Schueler (Enochian magick), Israel Regardie, Denning & Phillips, Ted Andrews, and Diane Stein. Some good stuff! Date: Monday, August 9, 1993 1:41am Forum: Magick From: Mindless Msg#: 385852 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: baphonet (2 replies) to any & all who may be interested... there is an occult/pagan bbs called baphonet here in brooklyn <718> 499-0513 <718> 499-9277 it features practically every occult conference on the various networks incl. fido & internet sysop is tony ianotti... there's a heavy thelemite/oto flavour, but a great deal in the way of other paths, incl. eastern philosophies... check it out... mindless. Date: Friday, August 13, 1993 12:10am Forum: Magick From: Mindless Msg#: 387301 To: Merlin *EXEMPT* Re: Witches (Reply to #387108, Reply to #386981, Reply to #386672, R*) (2 replies) here's the whole story about the jonesboro thing... at least as of 8/2... latest i could find ======================================================================== BBS: BaphoNet-by-the-Sea -=- 718/499-9277 Date: 08-02-93 (22:28) Number: 283 From: SIMON NOVALI Refer#: NONE To: ALL Recvd: NO Subj: Jonesboro Update Conf: (19) Cultinfo ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Subject: Time: Date: Jonesboro Update 2:55 PM 8/2/93 Written August 2nd, 1993 by jbhicks@mcimail.com - Additional details on the Jonesboro, AR "Magic Moon" case: On June 10th, Terry & Amanda Riley leased a building from a friend of the family, with the understanding that it was going to be a bookstore, and they are fairly certain that the owner knew it was going to be an occult bookstore, particularly since he told them not to worry about controversy. On June 21st, the store, named Magic Moon, opened to the public. It appears that Magic Moon is not only the first occult shop in Jonesboro, but in fact the first occult shop in Arkansas, ever. (Elsewhere, occult supplies are sold in "novelty shops" that carry other things as well.) On June 23rd, two days later, the owner, accompanied by two ministers, came in and told them they would have to move out by July 10th, as he was planning on demolishing the building. The Rileys found a lawyer who told them that he could not take on their case, as he didn't have the time for it, but he would write a letter on their behalf; on the basis of his letter, the move-out date was changed to August 10th. A group of local ministers (according to a source speaking on the condition of anonymity, supported by ALL of the ministers in Jonesboro) gave a press conference in which they denounced the Rileys as dangerous Satan worshippers; we at AMER have not received the rest of the details of their accusations yet. In response, the Rileys also went to the press, and the local newspaper also quoted a religion scholar from Arkansas University as saying that Wicca and Satanism were two different, unrelated things. Despite this, and apparently at the urging of the combined ministers of Jonesboro, the Rileys have been turned down by every landlord and realtor they have approached about finding a new site for the business, more than thirty times. They have since found another lawyer who is willing to take their case, but only on payment of a $6000 retainer (in AMER's opinion, this is not unreasonable considering the complexity of the case). In his opinion, a case can be made against the landlord and possibly against all the landlords and ministers in town, on grounds of discrimination, libel, slander, conspiracy to form a land covenant, and conspiracy to destroy a religious group (under the Proxmire Act). Contributions to the Rileys defense fund should be made out to "Terry or Amanda Riley" and mailed to 910 Ladd, Lake City, AR 72437. On Sunday, August 1st the Rileys held a protest march in Jonesboro in hopes of educating the public and persuading at least one landlord to change his mind. By AMER's estimate, approximately 200 Wiccans, Pagans, and other supporters marched the two and a half miles (in 90+ degree heat) through the main commercial district of Jonesboro, then through a residential neighborhood en route to the city courthouse, downtown, where a brief rally was held. Marchers came from Memphis, Tennessee, Springfield and St. Louis, Missouri, and throughout northeastern Arkansas. People marching on behalf of the Rileys carried pictures of the Goddess of Liberty and various signs calling for civil rights, and chants included "What do we want? Civil rights! When do we want it? Now!", and "We are an old people, we are a new people, we are the same people stronger than before." Signs reminded the people of Jonesboro that "Witches Heal," "Discrimination is Un-American," and "Like It Or Not, the Bill of Rights is the Law." The marchers cheered when a letter of support from Selena Fox was read aloud. At the courthouse, Terry Riley read a brief statement to the assembled reporters, and then the marchers returned to their parked cars. The Alliance for Magical and Earth Religions (AMER) distributed a statement denouncing the persecution of Magic Moon as bigoted, un-American, and probably illegal. In the march, AMER was represented by its president, Brad Hicks, its treasurer, Wendy Clawson, and its public information officer, Michael Fix, all of St. Louis. The AMER contingent marched under an American flag. En route to downtown, the marchers were met by a small counter-demonstration (the AP estimates 250 people, but AMER estimates no more than 100) outside Central Baptist Church of Jonesboro, where counter-protestors read aloud from the Christian Scriptures, yelled insults, demanded that the marchers leave town at once, and chanted "Jesus still loves you." The protesters from Central Baptist Church followed the marchers downtown, where they attempted to drown out Terry Riley's statement by chanting, "We want our children safe." The Jonesboro police department is especially to be commended for their hospitality, professionalism, and hard work. When the Wal- Mart announced that protesters could not park on their parking lot (as was earlier announced by the organizers), the Jonesboro police helped many of the marchers find the alternate parking lot at the Jonesboro High School. Four squad cars escorted the marchers, two before and two after. Uniformed officers accompanied the march for the entire two and a half miles, and at the point where the march had to pass the counter-demonstration, police formed a "human chain" to protect the marchers from any threat of violence. Those of you on short deadlines, consider the above a rough-draft background document and call me at the phone number in the original press release if you have doubts as to which parts are official and which aren't. Those of you who are distributing this news electronically are free to distribute this, but only IN ITS ENTIRETY, at least down to this paragraph; in particular, my email address AND THE DATE. An official press release will follow by the end of this week, and we will keep you up-to- date as additional news comes in. - J. Brad Hicks, President, Alliance for Magical and Earth Religions --- timEd-B9 * Origin: The Northern Lights * Citrus Hts CA * 916-729-0304 (1:203/444) mindless. Date: Tuesday, January 4, 1994 2:03pm Forum: Magick From: Merlin Msg#: 434070 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: Lecture series (1 reply) Next month, I'm presenting a series of talks at the New York Open Center. The copy from the latest catalogue is below: LIVES OF FOUR GREAT JEWISH MYSTICS In this series [Merlin] will introduce us to and explore in depth the lieves and philosophies of four great Jewish mystics and Kabbalists, discussing the historical context of their teachings, as well as their contemporary relevance. The first class will be a general introduction, and the subsequent four will focus on Abraham Abulafia, Isaac of Acre, Moses Cordovero, and Isaac Luria. T3095 February 8 - General Introduction T3096 February 15 - Abraham Abulafia T3097 February 22 - Isaac of Acre T3098 March 1 - Moses Cordovero T3099 March 8 - Isaac Luria For the Series: T3100S Tuesdays, 7:45 pm The series is $50 for members, $60 for non members. Single talks are $11 for members and $13 for non members. For more information, or to register, call the Open Center at (212) 219-2527. Date: Sunday, March 20, 1994 6:28pm Forum: Magick From: Daliah Msg#: 460041 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: Wiccan/Pagan Reading List File: 460041.ATT (1 reply) The first time I tried to upload the wiccan/pagan reading list It didn't go through, it was in Wordperfect 6.0 windows format, so I converted it to ansi dos text and here it is Daliah Date: Monday, April 11, 1994 12:10am Forum: Magick From: Scarlett Msg#: 467585 To: Daliah *EXEMPT* Re: New book spotted (Reply to #458707, Reply to #457398, Reply to #455369, R*) (2 replies) Last year, at a little shop in PA called Heart of the Goddess I found a beautiful desk calendar called RETURN OF THE GODDESS 1993 published by Hands of the Goddess press in Amherst MA. Address: Hands of the Goddess Press, 19 Kettle Hill Road RFD3, Amherst, MA 01002, (413) 548-9572. Give them a try. The calendar had all sorts of artwork related to the goddess in it, as well as the dates of the phases of the moon, astrological movements, holidays from all cultures and paths, quotes from women includig Margot Adler, Yoko Ono, May Sarton, Doreen Valiente, & many others. It was a wonderful book, though I was frustrated that it didn't include a section for addresses. Still, it served its purpose beautifully. Date: Thursday, December 22, 1994 11:23am Forum: Magick From: Daliah Msg#: 541023 To: ** ALL ** *EXEMPT* Re: Reading List File: 541023.ATT (1 reply) The following attachement is a file containing the reading list from my pagan way. It leans very heavilly on the Welsh tradition, please enjoy and remember the three fold law......"Do what you will for it returns to you thricefold" enjoy..... Date: Monday, October 9, 1995 11:53pm Forum: Magick From: Lythande Msg#: 641263 To: Big John *EXEMPT* Re: Intelligent people (Reply to #627549) (1 reply) BJ>I understand from your bio that you enjoy speaking to intelligent BJ>people. Well, in comparison to other people, I am very intelligent. No BJ>one, I think is intelligent in an absolute sense. I am not a body BJ>builder (I cannot exactly reconcile the fact that you like to talk to BJ>intelligent people and body builders) but I am quite muscular and in BJ>good shape. However, I think in this medium you might appreciate my BJ>mind, sense of humor, and conversational ability more. If you'd like to BJ>talk, drop me an Email. BJ, dear. Is ther a reason you wrote this in /Magick and not in Debbi's e-mail? Apropos topic you chose, don't you think? Date: Monday, October 28, 1996 11:22pm Forum: Magick From: Merlin Msg#: 721499 To: Sysop Re: Remember (Reply to #720807, Reply to #720777, Reply to #720749, R*) I think that May Day is Beltane, yes. Date: Monday, October 28, 1996 11:22pm Forum: Magick From: Merlin Msg#: 721500 To: Johndrake Re: Remember (Reply to #720823, Reply to #720749, Reply to #720653) (1 reply) Well, whether or not you've a computer, please feel free to post anything you'd like about Samhaine here. A little activity would be a good thing. Date: Monday, October 28, 1996 11:23pm Forum: Magick From: Merlin Msg#: 721501 To: Johndrake Re: Remember (Reply to #720824, Reply to #720777, Reply to #720749, R*) (1 reply) Jeanette, of course I forgive . JD can tell you what an easy-going guy I am. Date: Tuesday, October 29, 1996 4:04am Forum: Magick From: Johndrake Msg#: 721513 To: Merlin Re: Remember (Reply to #721500, Reply to #720823, Reply to #720749, R*) (1 reply) Unfortunately David, she's a user and a player to me..unless she's got a computer at hand she's no longer invited to use my computer let alone the account. Unless for some unheard of mircle..which I doubt. / Date: Tuesday, October 29, 1996 4:05am Forum: Magick From: Johndrake Msg#: 721514 To: Merlin Re: Remember (Reply to #721501, Reply to #720824, Reply to #720777, R*) HOw can I Merl...she's no longer invited back here ...a price I pay for sanity.. my own .. Date: Monday, November 18, 1996 12:14am Forum: Magick From: Conundrum Msg#: 723108 To: AndrewG Re: Magick (Reply to #714700, Reply to #714626, Reply to #714407) AN>CO>AN>I was always under the impression the 666 was to represent Nero who AN>CO>AN>persecuted the Jews. I t might have been later on used to represent AN>CO>AN>evil... Lucifer but, I 'm pretty sure that it initially meant Nero. AN>CO>AN>Those are my2-cents. AN>CO>Only reference I know of is biblical "666 is the number of the AN>CO>Beast". AN>CO> Don't thin kthat refers to Nero... AN>I got my info from a Jesuit . He told me that using Hebrew numerology AN>the numbers represent the letters in the Nero's name. This is all AN>in Hebrew of course. A Jesuit what? Remember, just because something works in Gematria doesn't mean it's its only meaning. I believe that there's a phrase (in Numbers? about 666 being the "Number of the Beast" (which is the original source for the number). Date: Monday, November 18, 1996 12:15am Forum: Magick From: Conundrum Msg#: 723109 To: Merlin Re: Remember (Reply to #720777, Reply to #720749, Reply to #720653) (1 reply) It was indeed. And a merry Samain it was. Date: Monday, November 18, 1996 12:16am Forum: Magick From: Conundrum Msg#: 723110 To: Johndrake Re: Remember (Reply to #720824, Reply to #720777, Reply to #720749, R*) Oh yeah, I missed Samain here too:( Happy New Year, everyone! (Samain is the pagan New Year) Date: Tuesday, November 26, 1996 9:24pm Forum: Magick From: Merlin Msg#: 723437 To: Johndrake Re: Remember (Reply to #721513, Reply to #721500, Reply to #720823, R*) (1 reply) Sorry to hear that, JD. Was hoping for something better for you. Date: Tuesday, November 26, 1996 9:24pm Forum: Magick From: Merlin Msg#: 723438 To: Conundrum Re: Remember (Reply to #723109, Reply to #720777, Reply to #720749, R*) (1 reply) Good...glad to hear it. :) Date: Friday, November 29, 1996 4:19pm Forum: Magick From: Johndrake Msg#: 723566 To: Merlin Re: Remember (Reply to #723437, Reply to #721513, Reply to #721500, R*) (1 reply) It's the strangest thing ...seems like women I meet have some sort of magick like connection...geeze..this is sorta making me wonder if I attract those women?? Date: Saturday, December 7, 1996 3:24pm Forum: Magick From: Merlin Msg#: 723917 To: Johndrake Re: Remember (Reply to #723566, Reply to #723437, Reply to #721513, R*) (1 reply) Might be, JD. Perhaps there's something sort of...hmmm...latent within you that they latch onto -- some sort of depth of spirituality that you yourself might not be aware of. Date: Monday, December 9, 1996 6:37am Forum: Magick From: Johndrake Msg#: 723968 To: Merlin Re: Remember (Reply to #723917, Reply to #723566, Reply to #723437, R*) (2 replies) Yeah, from what I have gathered with my own self, it's some spirit alright...the give too damn much,bend over backwards for nothing, spirit. BUt that's another story and another forum on here... I seem to recall the holiday Samahain has come and gone? speaking of which...what's the next convention due to be in the NY area? Date: Thursday, December 12, 1996 7:48pm Forum: Magick From: Merlin Msg#: 724091 To: Johndrake Re: Remember (Reply to #723968, Reply to #723917, Reply to #723566, R*) (1 reply) Next convention that I can think of would be Lunacon, up in Rye Brook. Samhain has come & gone, yes. It's the secular Halloween. Date: Thursday, December 19, 1996 5:06am Forum: Magick From: Johndrake Msg#: 724310 To: Merlin Re: Remember (Reply to #724091, Reply to #723968, Reply to #723917, R*) (1 reply) Rye Brook...woah..are you and Alex making a run at any conventions this coming new year? Date: Sunday, February 2, 1997 12:08pm Forum: Magick From: Merlin Msg#: 729343 To: Johndrake Re: Remember (Reply to #724310, Reply to #724091, Reply to #723968, R*) Plenty, JD. We've tentative plans t'be at nine. The first is the 1 in Rye Br00k (pr0blems with my 0 key 0n this 0ld system). Date: Monday, March 3, 1997 9:28pm Forum: Magick From: Conundrum Msg#: 730551 To: Merlin Re: Remember (Reply to #723438, Reply to #723109, Reply to #720777, R*) (1 reply) ME>Good...glad to hear it. :) Yah. Missed you at Etheracon, btw; had good stuff, including Jane's thang. Are you still doing the New Games scthick? I didn't notice at the time, but I don't remember new games at any of the local conventions for the past few years. Date: Monday, March 3, 1997 9:29pm Forum: Magick From: Conundrum Msg#: 730552 To: Johndrake Re: Remember (Reply to #723968, Reply to #723917, Reply to #723566, R*) JO>I seem to recall the holiday Samahain has come and gone? JO> speaking of which...what's the next convention due to be in the NY JO>area? As Merlin said, it's Lunacon, this weekend. I'll be there, will anyone here be? Date: Thursday, March 20, 1997 6:35am Forum: Magick From: Merlin Msg#: 731539 To: Conundrum Re: Remember (Reply to #730551, Reply to #723438, Reply to #723109, R*) (1 reply) Haven't had a Games thing in a while...It's just n0t in demand at this time, I guess. k Date: Friday, January 23, 1998 2:40am Forum: Magick From: Conundrum Msg#: 744088 To: Merlin Re: Remember (Reply to #731539, Reply to #730551, Reply to #723438, R*) Maybe you just haven't been volunteering? Incidentally, have you two dropped out of the local con circut or what? I haven't seen you at Lunacon in ages, and unless I misremember, neither of you were at either of the last two Etheracons :( End of list! Select a Sysop option (R,W,F,T,S,M,E,A,O,X to exit or ? for menu):